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fix our books or else! # U p d a t e s

Over 100: Number of PowerBook G3 owners who agree that Apple should fix our defective PowerBook hinges (clutches) for free. From all over the USA, Asia and Europe, as of 12/21.
$404.25: Average repair cost for those who have already paid for repairs, not "$310" and definitely not "free."
7: Number of Apple PowerBook G3 customers due to receive free defective clutch repairs by Apple, that I know of, as of 12/16, at least partially due to our online collaboration.




12/26/00 update - coming soon


Friday 12/22/2000, 1:30pm PST update

Ahhhh! I can't take it anymore. But I'm not giving up!
-Ken

Latest incoming:


Wednesday 12/20/2000, 11:45pm PST update

Hi. I'm now on my 1994 Macintosh Quadra 605 (25MHz) since Airborne Express picked up my PowerBook this afternoon for shipment to Apple Texas. I hope my couriers aren't "farm basketball" types as in recent TV footage of NorthWest Airlines baggage handlers. Many emails came this morning, thank you for writing. I've been very busy even without this and sorry if I haven't replied (yet?).

-- Situation report --
I will post "the email" here if/when I get permission. If you wrote me before today regarding the Pow-Wow, please write me again since I've lost email from yesterday and prior. (It's on my powerbook and I didn't forward all my mail elsewhere.)

Monday 12/18/2000, 10:30pm PST update


10:30pm addition: Steamrolled (4MB), option-click or right-click to download and play with QuickTime Player. I slapped together this silly movie to show how I feel about Apple's treatment of us WallStreet PowerBook owners. I would have made an original, smaller filesized movie, but don't have the capability. It does seem to take a steamroller to break a PC laptop's hinges though, looking strictly at the evidence. Wouldn't you agree?

Evening email from another PowerBook G3 owner:
"Submitted my report to the ACR website on Friday evening (12/15), and received a call from Richard at ACR this evening (12/18). Here is a rather lengthy summary of my approximately 50 minute phone call:

First, a little background on my case... quoted from my note posted on the ACR site:

"As I've tried to figure out how to get the machine fixed, it's become a "prop-top," sitting immobile on my couch. I've also noticed that sometimes the screen begins fading in and out (the image will fade to white, I'll nudge the screen, and it will snap back to normal). This is precisely the behavior that my *first* PowerBook G3 exhibited just before the screen failed completely (I received it as a Christmas present in December 1998, the screen failed the third week of January 1999). Being as this machine is the replacement for that PowerBook (I received a new machine and sent the old PowerBook in for engineering review), I'm particularly dismayed.."

That's right folks... this machine is a REPLACEMENT to my first DEFECTIVE PowerBook on which the screen failed approximately three weeks after I received it. So now I am VERY disgusted.

Anyway, back to the phone call. Richard followed a strict party line that Apple's engineers have completed a study that shows these clutches are not failing at a high enough rate in relation to the number of units shipped in order to justify them being repaired free-of-charge. According to a "very recently handed down" edict to ACR, these problems will no longer be repaired free of charge. This was when I mentioned that some people were getting free repairs, and that some people were getting different stories (i.e. denials at first, then later having their machines fixed). I asked point blank if I should keep calling he replied that this is now Apple's official stance on the issue: no more free repairs, period. He would not give me a date on the completion of the study or the date at which this new policy was handed down, however. He said he assumed it must've come down over the weekend.

I furthered pressed for an explanation of what this supposed study showed (e.g. projected number of cycles before the hinges were expected to fail, etc.). He replied that the information was both not readily available to him and likely proprietary... I pointed out how difficult it is to argue against facts that you're not allowed to see. I know for a fact that my screen has likely been cycled 1,000 times or less... 1,500 being the absolute most (I left it sitting still on my desk, open for a year of the 20 months I've owned it, rarely moving it and thus cycling the hinge). I pointed out that I find it ludicrous that it is "normal" for the machine to fail under such usage. Essentially, in my view, if the average failure rate the engineers came up with is approximately 3,000 cycles or more, then my machine is clearly a statistical outlier (read: defective product). But again, it's hard to argue with facts you're not allowed to see.

Curiously, when I pointed out Apple's penchant to deny problems and then quietly offer refunds or buybacks, usually as a result of lawsuits, Richard made a strange comment... he said something to the effect of "I assume you bought your G3 as a result of the PB 190 trade-up program." I pointed out that I bought it at full price (well, actually, with education discount).

Seeing that we were at the end of the road, I asked if my options basically boiled down to get the machine fixed for $310, or wait it out till someone sues or Apple reverses course of its own volition and they are obliged to offer free repairs. He said yes, those are essentially your options.

After Richard offered to pass along my complaints, I asked him essentially who in Cupertino I needed to bitch to. Not receiving a clear answer, I'm taking a shot in the dark and writing a letter to Apple, attn: Steve Jobs. I doubt it'll get through, and even if it does if it'll get read, but it's worth a shot I guess. Besides, it lets me vent some of my seething anger.

On a further note, I noted to Richard that if this issue is not fixed to my satisfaction (i.e. my repair is not performed free of charge), this will be the last Apple product I buy after 15 years of ownership of Apple IIs, Macs, and Newtons. I pointed out that it's bad business to screw loyal customers. At this point, I am thoroughly disgusted with this computer and the support I have received (I was given a run-around when the soundcard failed because the serial number wore off the lousy sticker, and I was essentially DENIED a warranty replacement of my hard drive when it started to refuse to read/write to certain sectors, despite several low-level formats... eventually I had to replace the drive out-of-pocket), and I've made that clear at every turn.

Oh well, back to my letter... a lawsuit is starting to sound better and better to mine ears..."

and a followup:
One more thing I forgot from my phone call with Richard...

When I mentioned that I know that many people are suffering this problem, he pointed out that "with the rise of mass dissemination of information and the internet" there will be exaggerations of problems with everyone jumping in and saying "me too." He qualified it by saying, "I'm not saying you're doing that" yadda yadda, but I was still offended. I've got a broken, defective computer, and I hear that everyone's jumping on the "me too" bandwagon as my consolation? If you're trying to appease me, wrong answer.
This must be the identical Richard who said in his call to me a week ago that he'd reviewed this site. I can't remember now but I think he called it "interesting." Several Apple employees -- more than 10 of them, unless they are rebooting constantly and use DHCP -- have browsed this website "as thoroughly as a sheep in a cabbage patch..." (only one was using OSX)


4:50pm, this just in from another PBG3 owner:
"Following my first contact with ACR on Monday afternoon, I sent another note via the ACR feedback form. This resulted in a call back from ACR (compared to Friday's message to them, which had no result), stating again that this is "not a known issue", and that any units taken in for free were done so only for Engineering to determine whether there was an emerging problem. No assistance or alternative solution of any kind was offered, essentially determining the official position that hinge lifetimes of 13 and 9 months are quite acceptable."
My last final is tomorrow at 12:30pm. After tomorrow, this campaign gets my full attention and energy until my job and jury duty get in the way (January). Christmas will not get in the way. Too much is at stake, and there remain a lot of angry PowerBook owners who I am obligated to help. "The" letter goes out tomorrow.

My Airborne Express box finally came today. The guy just threw it by my door around noon. My hinges are to be fixed but not the AC port. This is a victory of eating sand. Other than that, using my 25 megahertz "backup mac" is going to be a pain while the PB is in Texas. The box came with a manifest, a photocopied sheet on how wonderful AppleCare is, a sheet of iBook-specific instructions, foam cushioning, and the usual pink plastic baggie. Unlike my box from 1999, there were no instructions, but I know the game by now.

An email from this afternoon:
No luck here, though after requesting to be transferred to a member of their supervising staff (at Apple Customer Relations), I was issued with a case number: 8225846. "Melissa" reiterated what I'd been told by the first rep - it's not a known issue, and they can't authorise a repair or warranty extension.

Meanwhile, my Wallstreet sits unusable, as the hinge failure has brought about damage or dislodging of the display cable - all the screen shows now is a variety of multicolored vertical lines, bearing no relation to the actual screen contents.

That this would happen after such a short period of time is unacceptable to begin with, but for this to have happened a *second* time, in even /less/ time (about nine months, compared to thirteen for the original set), and to be met with such a refusal to acknowledge any problem, is highly frustrating. Coupled with the lack of any option /but/ to send it to Apple's central facility, as it's a display related repair, merely compounds the issue, as I'd otherwise be able to at least get the repair performed in an hour or so at a local store. Mentioning the other case numbers which have received covered repairs made no difference, with the comment that they probably shouldn't have authorised those at all, and the implication that it was only persistence that brought about their success.

Looks like the campaign still needs to continue, unfortunately.

I'm very disappointed in Apple.


Saturday 12/16/2000, 11:21pm PST update

Hello all! I just wanted to say that the amount of email I'm getting evokes a snowstorm, and it's getting hard for me to handle it all. I don't know what to do about this whole project, except to keep it alive, and come back with more vigor in a bit. Question: if I set up a time and a place at MacWorld this January in SF, would you come? It might be a waste of time, but who knows. Please tell me your opinion.

Hi Ken,

Just wanted to thank you for your website. Your story encouraged me to take up this battle once again. I had spoken/argued with Apple once before about this problem and they of course refused to fix it without my paying $310. Since I posted to your site, I have called Apple again to address this problem (my hinges failed over a year ago and my screen is precariously perched at a careful angle).

Well, yesterday I spoke with Apple again and told them I knew of people in my exact situation who were having their repairs done at no cost and I wondered why I wasn't receiving the same treatment. I gave them the names/case #'s off your site and they claimed for legal reasons they couldn't discuss someone else's case. They put me through to a senior customer service rep who told me, like before, that this problem has been discussed and it has been decided that it wouldn't be covered. I was getting angry at this point, but I remained civil throughout the conversation. I told him that if this was the end of the line, and they had nothing more to offer me, that I would have to take some further action to assure that I was receiving the same treatment as their other customers. The service rep got very formal and told me that if I was talking about legal action he would have to discontinue the phone call right then and there. I asked him if he was in my situation wouldn't he be doing the exact same thing ... and are you giving me any other choice? He again said he would have to hang up ... I told him don't worry I'd save him the trouble, that I AM talking about legal action and I am hanging up (which I did as he was saying "thank you for calling Apple, have a nice day!").

Well I was just getting over my anger/frustration today when I got a call from Apple Computers!! They said that they have reviewed my case further and have decided to fix my problem for free, and that this was a one time repair only. They are sending out a box Airborne tomorrow. I am sooo happy!!!

I encourage others to do the same. You must be persistent with them, (though always be polite), and you may have to gently pressure/threaten to get action, but it does work!

My name is: Nick Sasson
My case # is: 7955854

Thanks again for your efforts on our behalf!
Nick
I still haven't gotten any Airborne Express box from Apple yet. I'm getting suspicious.

Friday 12/15/2000, 6:29pm PST update

Anonymous AC Port information (thanks!)
"FYI. The AC Port problem can be fixed by replacing the "Sound Card", $81.00 dealer cost for the part (repaired several for various people). Sound card is a small board that contains the AC Port, and the speaker and mic ports."

Since 12/5, I have received 170 emails from other WallStreet PowerBook owners mostly, but also from people who own Pismo, 1400, and older model PowerBooks. To date, there have only been three negative emails. Two were uninformed and these were both anonymous. Why do people have to hide behind their screens online? Neither offered anything productively substantive, being soley abusive. What kind of shit is that? If you think you are that much smarter or braver than I am, why don't you help out, or try doing what I am doing, better? Do you want to start a lawsuit? Go for it! I don't appreciate getting clueless drivel like this:
Received from: h-209-91-70-196.gen.cadvision.com
Referring Page: http://death.berkeley.edu/%7Ekenao/unhinged/comments.html
Received at Fri Dec 15 16:47:21 PST 2000

NAME:  = ""
EMAIL:  = ""
WHERE:  = ""
COMMENTS: = "Way to cop out, panty boy."

Subject: Re: Powerbook repairs
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:54:43 -0800
x-sender: edf@scruznet.com
From: edf 
To: 

While you're at it (class action lawsuit), why not do everything else you 
can to hit Apple while its down? Maybe you can suceed in forcing them 
into bankruptcy.
To dumbshit #1: how is agitating against Apple copping out? [retroactive update: I figured out the reason for this comment. yesterday I rewrote the comment submission page to say something like "I think these problems are over since Apple says it will fix my PB and it seems like they are fixing them all now" but in the morning I realized the problem wasn't over based on incoming emails. I rewrote the comments page but didn't upload it until the most recent update. whoops? in light of that, the anonymous poser's comment was well deserved. I still don't know why MacNN didn't link to the front page, though.]
To dumbshit #2: doesn't the great Mountain Eagle have a $4,000,000,000 cash kitty? As for "Think Different" and January 24, let me just say that it requires a great ideal to produce a great crime.

On requests: if you email me expecting me to take care of your case or to give you a magic quick-fix formula, I can't provide these services. If you want something to happen, you have to do it yourself! That said, I am trying to help other PBG3 owners, this page is proof of that, and most observers will understand that this isn't over yet. I have final exams -- what the fuck do you want me to do, drive to Cupertino and protest outside?

More PowerBook G3 owners write in -- selections from today's emails:
  • G3/250 13.3". Hinge problem diagnosed while in warranty and Apple refused to fix it, also to explain what the problem was, and just sent it back to me, claiming it was my fault. It's not completely broken, but it does move back and forth and not stay put.

    I also have two other problems in addition to the floppy screen, both of which I reported to Apple while it was under warranty and neither of which did they fix (or even explain why they couldn't): the problem where if you even touch the battery or that part of the machine, it shuts off; and also the standard 13.3" problem with the screen cable and noise/white screen.

    So, to recap, I've got a PowerBook with a broken hinge, a broken screen, and no capability to run off the battery unless I'm -very- careful. It sits on my desk connected to an external monitor and keyboard - some laptop that is.


  • My screen wobbles about an inch. This book was sent to apple under warrenty (about 3 months old) because the battery wouldn't charge when the computer was on. I read about the hinge problem even then (dec 1998). I specifically requested that the apple tech make note that the screen needed tightening and he did write it on the ticket. I recieved the PowerBook back and the screen was still quite wobbly, I assumed it was as tight as it can get. Now I read that hinges are breaking after several years and I'm nervous. I want to get these babies replaced (on Apple's dollar) if it is indeed a design flaw!!!


  • I just wanted to throw my two cents into this mess....

    I have an original Wallstreet with the 13.3" screen that gets gentle, daily use. About 2 months out of warranty the right display hinge broke (I saw the clutch, it had broken in half), since the repair involved working with the screen, Apple required that the repair be done in Texas.

    The cost of the repair was a little over $300 (of course the repair also took a few weeks).

    When the computer was finally returned to me the AC port on the back had been snapped off of the pc board. Apple told me that it was "like that when it got here" only after I asked them what had happened. Unable to get any power into the laptop, I had no choice but to have it repaired (again, sent to Texas). Apple charged me an additional $600 for the privilage of having them break my AC port.

    I spent countless hours on the phone with a variety of Apple "support" people trying to get Apple to credit my visa for the $600. In the end I was told that since the computer wasn't under warranty there was nothing they could do (they were nice enough to point out that if I had purchased an extended warranty this would not have been a problem).

    I have never been more disappointed in a customer service experience than I was with Apple over the $900 bill I had to pay them. I guess that is the price I have to pay in order to 'think different.'

    By the way, my "repaired" clutches broke again recently (only 10 months after the repair). My Wallstreet is proped against a stack of books....


  • spent much time arguing with sos-apple about why they should pay for this - they denied it was a known issue.

    finally decided to pay for it myself but then apple refused to repair at all because it had no serial number (another common wallstreet problem is the serial number rubs off) so they had no way do enter it into their system without a serial number and recommended sending to dealer for "reserialization" and repair. i don't know if it was incompetence or stupidity, but sos-apple lied to me about this too because the dealer looked at it for 2 seconds (adding a $115 "diagnosis fee") and sent it to apple, who did the repair and reserialization themselves. total bill ($310 + $115 + tax) = $451.

    powerbook works fine again, but i don't care anymore - i have upgraded to a dell laptop (my first pc ever) with a 3 year warranty.

    apple has lost a long-time customer and supporter - i've personally purchased 9 macs (+, cx, ci, 3 q700s, 5400, pb5300, 2 iMacs, wallstreet) over the past 15 years and have been responsible for approving the purchase of hundreds and of course i've had to deal with apple service in the past and never had any "stupid process" problems like above. i will never buy another mac ever again and have stopped recommending and approving them for other prople's purchases. apple support is rotten.

    what would make me change my mind?

    they could start with getting rid of lame process excuses at sos-apple like "we can't enter it into our system without a serial number", stop denying the existence of these problems once they are known, and institute a 3 year warranty retroactive on all powerbooks and a 3 year warranty on all current products.


  • you're *definitely* not bugging anyone - we're all glad someone is taking the initiative! thank you so much!

    i don't see any resolution there ... am i missing something?

    the resolution i personally would be looking for is for Apple to reimburse everyone who had this problem and start fixing others for free - e.g. the $451 i already paid even if they did something bold like a *free* trade-up to a new g3 powerbook, i am not sure some users would want to - the DVD is inferior to my hardware-assisted wallstreet and i am not ready to move to USB/firewire

    -------

    anyhow, today i saw the news item and link on www.macnn.com and saw the anonymous form and submitted my story

    you're definitely getting publicity - i imagine it's only a matter of time before apple contacts you. perhaps every time a new user signs up you could send an automated petition to apple - 61 users demand blah blah blah. 62 users ..., 63 users... - not sure if that would be spam since it's not a bulk-mailed message.

    i love the simplicity form - i think you'll get lots of hits this way

    yes DEFINITELY you can post it - just don't post my name or email address

    PLEASE keep it up - i am so happy someone is doing something about this - i got so pissed off at apple for refusing to fix it that i decided not to fix it and bought a PC - the only reason i ended up fixing it was so i could recover my files and sell the thing to someone else (which i haven't done yet - i'm waiting to see how much of the mac-ness they remove from macosx before i give up on them forever)

    perhaps if you had a checkbox on the form that said "allow anonymous (no name or email) posting of subject and contents on the web site" it'd save you the trouble of contacting each user like this

    i think what you're doing is wonderful!


  • My pismo started the spider cracks (3 of them) around the hinge on the back top corner of the case it if is closed and behind the power key there were some scratches on the clutch cove, apple told me that they maybe will fix it under warr, we will see help me if you can.


  • Hi Ken,
    My hinge is either VERY loose or it is broken. I don't recall hearing a snapping sound that usually accompanies the hinge breaking but I haven't opened the monitor yet. Thanks for your efforts on behalf on PB owners.

    • When I have more time, I will create a "comments" section. This page is too long and unwieldy now.

    12/15/2000, 2:03pm PST update

    Apple doesn't seem to be giving out free repairs anymore. This makes me angry, since they did mine and several others for free. But then another person tells me that they ARE fixing hinges for free, so I feel more elated again. The inconsistency is astounding. Latest faux and latest fix:

    Bad experience:
    "Well, they told me to get lost, especially when I mentioned your case number. So are you going to still do a class action suit? Or are you just happy because you got yours fixed for free?? and give up, you started the web page you emailed me, so I'm just following your advice on how to get my "Proptop" fixed. I mean this in a friendly/concerned manner. I just hope something comes of this."

    Good experience:
    "After about 2 hours on the phone with apple today SOS and Cust Relations, Apple IS offering to repair my hinges "at this time only" and free of charge.
    My name for reference: Alex Zavatone
    My case number for reference: 8214986
    My Customer Satisfaction code for reference: H16834
    The Cust Service rep "Brenna" had stated that Apple is aware of problems with this issue and was very helpful in resolving it as were the other service reps in my 1 to 2 hour sequence of phone calls.

    I stressed that I own 2 powerbooks and spent over 5 thousand dollars and I understand their position but that's basically a severe design flaw or apple is designing their systems to fail under normal use.

    PLEASE repost. I only got anywhere due to your site.
    --
    - Zav"
    Many more people are starting to email me harsher comments in this respect, and others continue to write in about their loose PowerBook screens (the clutch defect). This morning, 17 people emailed me, which tells me that my "campaign" is far from over. We have miles to go.

    My efforts are generally appreciated, although some don't like that this site is confusing. I have another final exam tomorrow morning and a third next Tuesday, so please don't expect me to do a whole lot between now and then. Would you suggest that I set up an email list? Or a board? That can be done. Just email me using the comments page.

    Unrelated problem: if you know about this, please write in.
    I have a 'wear-and-tear' problem with my PowerBook which isn't listed on your page and which isn't 'fixable' -- I'd like to know if it is widespread, or limited to just my laptop. Here goes:

    The entire plastic case of my Wallstreet has become 'loose,' making it difficult for batteries and other peripherals to stay firmly seated in the expansion bays. As a result, if my PowerBook gets even a slight jostle while it's operating on batteries, it simply shuts off; similarly, I've often had the laptop plugged in but, because batteries are incorrectly seated, they do not recharge. If the laptop is on a desk or table without AC power, simply picking it up can cause it to shut off. Sometimes the force of closing the PowerBook's lid dislodges batteries sufficiently to shut the computer off. If I take the PowerBook and, opening and closing the hinges, 'pushing' its plastic parts together, in some way put pressure on the case, I can hear the laptop creaking audibly as the plastic parts move.

    Am I the only one with this problem? I don't think it's a matter of tightening screws - the plastics on my PowerBook are simply not assembled firmly enough. Am I crazy or have other people reported this?


    12/14/2000, 9:52pm PST update

    In case you don't believe the method in my previous update works, another now-satisfied Apple PowerBook G3 customer sent me this email:
    I call support once and got a case number but refusal, Just one call to ACR did it. I spoke with "Dan"

    I have to confess.. I did use your case number when he waffled. (despite you asking for us to call tomorrow... I'm so impatient!)... he siad "I'll have to get this approved.." then said "what the heck...I'll just approve it!"

    A box is on its way!

    Thanks again.
    As I've said before, I will keep updating this site as necessary. For now, I have finals to worry about.
    Ken

    12/14/2000, 12:42pm PST update

    (((Apple)))
    Good afternoon. After bugging (calling) Apple Customer Relations a second (third?) time, I have gotten the following result:
    As of at least yesterday, a senior ACR reviewed my case and a judgement was made that Apple would repair my hinges for free. An Airborne Express shipping box will be dropped off at my house tomorrow, and when I send my WallStreet PowerBook in, I can expect it to be fixed and returned within 5-7 business days.
    Results I did not get from my latest call to ACR today: Apple will not repair my AC port for free. They won't send me a schematic of the hinges and AC port which I can look at. They weren't willing to send me written confirmation. (I don't like "surprises" such as being billed after the fact.)

    At this point, having been assured of a repair of my PowerBook's hinges, it would be tactless to sue -- I have very little to sue about. I asked the technician who handled my dispatch to note that I can't afford to pay the flat rate repair ($310) for another issue (loose AC port) so please don't fix it. The AC port is probably a much easier fix which can be done locally and I will investigate it.

    If you too have a "proptop" instead of a laptop, call 1-800-767-2775. Don't push any options, wait for the operator and get transferred to Apple Customer Relations. You know what to do from there. If Apple refuses to fix your WallStreet PowerBook G3, refer to my name, case # and website and ask why there is disparate treatment. It should work.

    My info: Kenneth Ott, case # 8172839, death.berkeley.edu/~kenao/apple
    "Steve" also is getting his WallStreet fixed gratis, case # 7774393

    Steve offers this as an alternative strategy: Good luck with your PowerBooks. I like mine and have always taken the best care of it because it's what I'm most productive with; I feel basically satisfied that Apple has taken care of me with respect to the clutch defect. In a couple years, assuming I have a job and MacOSXIII isn't too bad, I might feel good about purchasing a top-of-the-line PowerBook G6.

    AC/battery info: http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n28500 and xlr8yourmac.com wallstreet battery runtime (two separate issues)

    Please keep me posted on your situations; this website will be fundamentally modified soon. If you get the same treatment as me, please "donate" your information so I can post it next to mine as proof of good will on Apple's part, and on your own success.

    12/13/2000, 11:05pm PST update

    I promise to post a real update within the next few days.
    Ken

    12/13/2000, 9:41am PST update

    I have to go take a final exam from 12:30pm to 3:30pm so I'm trying not to think about this whole mess. I won't be home most of today. Thank you to those of you who emailed me this morning and last night. Needless to say, there were many interesting, insightful comments about AC ports, hinges, and Apple corporate's internals. We're up to 44 Apple customers now. I will work on this more when I return home; ciao for now~~
    Ken

    12/12/2000, 8:31pm PST update

    I thought I'd get to hang up the stocking for Apple today. I misjudged.

    [AC port adventures]
    As it turns out, several other PowerBook G3 owners out there have AC power port problems. Joe Oliva, who works at the University of Wisconsin, says he paid for AppleCare but when his AC port went out, AppleCare refused to cover his problem. He had to pay an additional $310 -- $610 total. This is what happens inside companies which despise their customers. Someone else wrote: "I have the 'shielding' problem that prevents my book from charging unless its asleep." This problem is smaller and any Apple Repair shop should be able to fix it, not just the main (likely swamped) Apple Texas PowerBook repair center. That's not to say it's not a design weakness also, which Apple is probably responsible for.

    [Different treatment]
    Apple is selectively fixing PowerBook G3s hinges for free for a few people but not for the rest of us. Why isn't there a uniform business policy on this? This makes me extremely angry... we all have the same problem yet Apple is covering only some people? So now we know that it is official Apple policy to make everyone pay $310 to get their hinges fixed, except for a few people. Why? I am aware of a meeting that occurred inside Apple where they decided to start making everyon pay $310 to get their hinges fixed. What Richard from ACR told me yesterday is crap, unless I misunderstood him. (I am waiting for clarification.)

    Today started out with hope, but now I'm PISSED!!! Why do we need to turn to courts for justice? I've been threatening it from the start, but an honest class-action seems the only way to get to the bottom of this, and to get equal treatment for everyone who bought a WallStreet PoweBook. (To ACR: I will not be home Wednesday.) Last bits: silly haiku.

    9:43pm: I think Apple might be only fixing Wallstreets with "totally" gone hinges -- where you have to use string or tape to keep the lid up. I'm not sure though. Apple has all the information; we don't.

    12/12/2000, 11:57am PST update

    *** Success ***
    "Hi Ken,
    I used the customer feedback link on your website to contact Customer Relations. What do you know, I am on the phone with Apple right now. The have finally agreed to fix my hinges for free :)
    Thanks for your help"
    What's the lesson? I don't know. I'm sick, tired and need to study for finals. Apple has offices all over the country and may not always be internally unified on policy. But, if you contact Apple via the ACR link above, your hinges should get fixed -- for free. This campaign may be winding up. Please let me know what happens to you.

    This morning's comments:
    "I have WS300/14.1" screen. Both clutches are broken. The first broke a year ago (November 1999), leaving the display limp, followed by the second in early 2000. I've called Apple several times, and each time they refuse to fix for free. I've held off sending in until formal resolution of issue.
    I also have a long-standing and annoying problem with loose battery bay connections that cause PB to lose power if I don't pick it up just right when in sleep mode. I then have to re-boot and sometimes reset clock.
    GOOD LUCK!"

    "My Wallstreet display hinge is equally loosened, and in danger of causing even further damage to the display. In my mind, its a question of doing what's right before my Wallstreet experiences additional damage. I am a professional user and have taken particular care not to abuse my Powerbook, as I rely on it for my livelihood.
    Apple needs to make some allowance for this problem."

    "I sold BOTH of my WallStreet PowerBooks. The hinges on one had already gotten loose, and I hadn't even had it a YEAR!
    I bought 2 iBooks, but I feel for the PowerBook owners. I don't think i'll buy a PB again if Apple turns their back on the WallStreet owners. "

    More stuff: Mac Fixit on PB hinge failure (October 2000).

    12/11/2000, 9:00pm PST update

    This is today's fourth and last update.

    A friend told me today by email that Apple left a message for me on an answering machine at the place I volunteer at. (This friend owns an iMac + iBook SE.) I had told Bill (12/7/00) to let Apple Customer Relations call my house on the weekend as I would be available there, and gave him my home phone number when he asked for it. So that's not my fault, but a small mistake on their part. ACR is (slightly) more diligent than I thought.

    A demand I am willing to concede to Apple is my PowerBook's failed AC power port solder joint. It does not seem to be a common problem. The only mention I have seen of it anywhere is this post on Apple's discussion board. Further, only one of the thirty-one people I am representing has had this problem. Since I alone seem to have the problem, it wouldn't be right for me to make it a core demand. (However, do email me if your AC port has snapped or loosened greatly.)

    Big question mark: should G4 Cube power-down and miscellaneous Pismo issues be included in our clean-up campaign? Please let me know your view.

    As of tonight, 29 PowerBook G3 owners have signed up. This is enough people to fill a classroom; hence, we can now file a class-action suit. Just kidding.

    One of my friends bought a Sony VAIO PCG-Z505JE laptop tonight. At 3.75 lbs and $2000 (but 12"), it seems very nice -- my Wallstreet is 7.7 lbs and is hard to fit into a backpack along with notebooks, books and binder. At Fry's Electronics I closed and opened many PC laptops. Most seemed sturdy enough. The iBook's AC port is especially sturdy. Would that mine were.

    Late comment. "The left hinge died in October 1999, and was repaired out of warranty at my own expense. The left hinge is again dead, causing occasional stress on the display cable."

    12/11/2000, 5:35pm PST update

    This is today's third update. First, thanks to Doug Landry of The PowerBook Zone for announcing this page in today's news! PBZone is the second mac site to publicize our effort.

    Second, read our concrete demands of what we want Apple to do for. If our concrete demands are not met, we will have no recourse outside of this country's judicial system.

    Third, three more comments from Wallstreet PowerBook owners, including one from France: Not exactly. For not even the cost of a gourmet pizza, we can retain the services of a good corporate law firm.

    12/11/2000, 1:54pm PST update

    Believe it or not, I actually am studying in between checking my email and updating this page. Now onto the latest incoming emails which refer to my previous update:
    All I need to say in my best old-lady-voice is, "Where's the Beef?"

    My AC power port: it became loose and difficult to use this summer, and the rep said that is a "failure" not a "defect" (like hinges). Is this a polite business way of saying I broke it? As I recall, I haven't abused it.

    12/11/2000, 12:50pm PST update

    Better news: Richard from Apple Customer Relations called me at 11:10am this morning in response to my query using Apple's customer feedback webpage. I'm going to quote as accurately as I can what was said:
    He said that "we (Apple) have acknowledged" that hinges need to be fixed.

    The REA program that I mentioned on this site doesn't apply. (What? I don't remember mentioning this anywhere. I think he is referring to someone else's post at ArsTech: Battlefront and the 5300 REA. I have never stated that the 5300 program applies to Wallstreets.)

    He said the $310 flat rate plan includes repairing the AC port and anything else which may need to be fixed, and clutches are not included in it -- clutches are repaired for free. They just happen to be included in the flat rate repair, as a (free) side benefit. It's a difference in one's "perspective," he said.

    AC ports breaking internally, aren't these a defect? I never abused it, I use it like I'm supposed to. He said that the AC port simply "failed, it's not a defect." (I take issue with this. I believe that they are weakly soldered on and this is a weakness in design. It's not like I've ever yanked on it extremely hard.)
    So that is where we are now. I really really appreciate that someone from Apple did call to clarify some issues, but I disagree with the characterization of broken AC ports as not being a design weakness (flaw). Unfortunately I didn't ask for Richard's phone number so I will have to use the feedback form again.

    What do you think? If you own a PowerBook and it has broken clutches only, it looks like you are in luck. Call 1-800-275-2273 (press 1, 4, 2) to get your clutches fixed for free. If this doesn't happen, email me (or try getting hold of Apple Customer Relations). If you have a broken AC power port like me, we either end up shelling out $310 (for what I believe is a weak soldering job, hence a design and materials flaw) or continue arguing. This call from Apple also does not clear up what those people are to do who DID pay money, and only to have their clutches fixed!

    What Richard told me goes totally against what two other PowerBook G3 owners with hinge problems told me by email this morning:
    (1)
    "I have experienced the 'classic' hinge problem with my Powerbook purchased 11-13-98: first 'loose and floppy' screen, then the right hinge broke and the seam at the back separated. Currently, the left hinge is still functional, but I have to prop the screen up to use the Powerbook. This Powerbook was subjected to minimal wear and tear; opening it once or twice daily; traveling with it protected in carrying case at all times; never dropped.

    I did contact Apple about the problem at one time [CASE NO: 7523476 dispatch: D565904 8-17-00] and they said this was an 'occasional' problem. They offered to 'allow' me to send it in to Apple service since I live a long distance away from an authorized dealer. They wanted to charge me $350 minimum. And this was before the hinge actually broke. As I was not prepared to pay $350, I did not send the computer in at that time.

    I have since read about the chronic nature of this problem, and have been waiting to see if Apple admits that this is a design flaw, especially as I have heard that it takes an unpredictable time for repair due to unavailable parts, and it is what seems to me to be an unreasonable high price to pay for repair of what is apparently a defect in a product that I paid over $3500 for.

    By the way, they replaced, without question, my first Powerbook, which had a defective fuse when delivered. This was within the first few weeks after purchase. If only they would be as responsive to this issue."

    (2)
    "The clutches were loose for a few months, but just last week the right clutch completely broke in half. So now the right side isn't really attatched, which is a big problem. Also, since my serial number rubbed off of the defective sticker (another problem I have read about), Apple tech support has given me all kinds of trouble about getting the thing fixed. It is ridiculous."
    Back to the AC ports -- am I being a cheapskate? Definitely. I have $210 in my checking account and am currently going to school fulltime (not working). The flat rate repair plan costs $310. Do I have a valid issue? I believe so and Apple believes not. I'm not sure how to resolve this. If I had the money, I might be tempted to pay, but even then, I think the AC ports are weak (unlike, say, on iBooks which are supposed to be kid-proof).

    The whole reason I am going through this hassling is because I really like my PowerBook. MacOS is my preferred OS for mainstream work, although I am proficient in UNIX and Windows also. I want to use it for two more years before getting a newer PowerBook. So I, and others, are worried if the replacement hinges will also fail in one year's time. I'm not asking Apple to fix the very hot bottom of my laptop which makes having it in my lap unbearable; I'm not asking Apple to somehow magically extend its battery life to match the Pismo models; I don't expect to play DVDs (not that I have any) without buying a DVD module. I'm standing up for what I believe in, which is just and fair treatment of all Wallstreet PowerBook G3 owners. This has not yet happened.

    12/10/2000, 5:50pm PST update

    Apple did not call me back "within 48 hours," nor did they call me on the weekend when I said I'd be home. I stayed off the phone and in the house all weekend!! What kind of treatment is that!? As of now, there are 22 PowerBook G3 owners behind me, representing 26 PowerBook G3s, all with the same problems.

    Their angry comments speak for themselves:
    "Fought Apple for three months to get this problem covered, and they refused. Now I've found that they've covered it for many other people - I'm ticked, to say the least."

    "Let's hope this works. Apple should have addressed this problem by now!!! Thanks for doing this work!!!"

    "Yes, I have three Wallstreet PowerBooks...."

    "my hinges have not broken yet, they are very loose though, and I have heard a cracking noise a few times upon opening/closing the display. All these problems others seem to be having with their displays, leads me to believe that mine will eventually break. a replacement hinge sent to me for installation by me would be a solution."

    "My G3 series 266/14" TFT was still covered under an AppleCare extended warranty in September when I encountered the broken display hinge problem. Brought the PB to my local Mac service outlet (Tekserve in NYC)...they sent it for Apple depot repair, Apple refused to provide coverage under AppleCare...several hours of wait time and talk time on SOS Apple, where both the service rep and the tech person both claimed "never heard of this problem before" and "not a known defect" (these seem to be code phrases to cover them legally). Total cost to repair was $405.94 (Apple depot repair $375. plus 8.25% NYC sales tax of 30.94). Thanks for your efforts, go for it."

    "Very loose hinge. Won't stay in anything but pure upright position. Very little open and closing use."

    "Total Hinge Failure"

    "I'm having to deal with Apple right now to fix my powerbook's clutches and they are being particularly UNhelpful. I hope somehow your effort helps Apple to change their policy."

    "I lease this WS G3 PB/266/128/4GB since May 1999 and now it comes to easy falling display and i get frustaded, because my old PB 145 still works fine, no hinge problems. So Apple, fix it quick , free and local not NL !!!
    greetings from Hamburg (Germany)
    : ( Ralf"

    "I came across your page and wanted to add my name to your list. My Wallstreet 266 started losing it's hinge about 9 months after I bought it new. For over a year now I've been carefully propping my screen up, otherwise it just comes crashing forwards or backwards violently. I'm lucky nothing has broken yet as a result, but I'm sure it is only a matter of time.
    Been through Apple, they will kindly fix for $310. no thanks!!
    Thank you for organizing some kind of group effort ... count me in. I do appreciate your work!"

    "My hinge prob started about 18 mos. after purchase. Will only stay up at approx 90ƒ angle. Thanks for you efforts. Good luck."

    "Criticisms? Oh so many:
    1. Why didn't I know about the hinge before I bought it?
    2. Why did the hinge have to break down?
    3. Why me?
    4. Why why why?
    5. Why do PowerBooks need hinges anyway?
    All this is written in jest of course. :)"

    "Please let me know ASAP about this. i don't feel that i should have to pay the $310 for something that is not my fault"

    "I'm the Apple Technician for a respected Apple Specialist in ********, **, and I've seen about half a dozen of these cases, including my own personal Wallstreet. Apple fixed mine in June of 2000 for free thanks to my AppleCare agreement and an assurance from me that the computer was not abused (It wasn't)." [neither are ours!]

    "Hi,
    Great stuff, Kenneth. I will be signing up as soon as I get my serial number from my powerbook, which is now in the office.
    I can also a bit of international flavor to the movement, as I'm currently working in ********, Italy. There's a guy from Holland on the Powerlist who's had the hinge problem, and had it repaired FREE by Apple Europe who, he says, "admitted" that this is a "known problem". I can contact him, too, as he seemed pretty outspoken on the issue. He's also got a line on the hinges themselves, which can be ordered thru his local Apple dealer in Holland, at a cost of around $20 each: a lot cheaper than Apple's flat rate of $310, if you can do it yourself or get your local dealer to do the work (I have a great Apple reseller right next door here in ********, who would probably do the work for free!, or at most a nominal fee of maybe $30).
    Let's do it."

    "I totally agree that you should try an informal approach first. Tell me how it works out. It would be good for Apple to know that you are aware of others with the same problem and may all work together to solve the problem. Good Luck"

    "[...] my PB hinges cost me $451 to fix, not including valuable time spent arguing with sos-apple"

    More than one person suggested to me that I cannot get a "just" settlement of this whole issue without a court order. I have final exams these next two weeks. I shouldn't have to waste my time doing this shit.

    Oh, one more thing... this ArsTechnica Battlefront thread has been the most interesting of all the places I posted to. Go figure! (And thanks to the people who've been posting replies!)

    12/9/2000, 4:51am PST update

    Early morning, I have permission to post two informative letters by someone in the same boat with many of us Wallstreet owners. Enjoy: Of the people who've been getting on board (see "digital signatures" above), many PowerBook G3 Series owners tell me there is no way they are going to pay Apple $310 to fix a defect which is ultimately Apple's fault. Apple has very likely known how widespread this problem is since at least mid-1999. I was discussing this whole situation with friends earlier today and based on what we know, every single Wallstreet PowerBook G3 out there will eventually fail. Exceptions are those units already fixed, destroyed, mothballed, or by lucky by random chance. The discussion went off on tangents about aluminum metal fatigue in airplanes, how much it would cost Apple to fix all Wallstreet models on the road, whether it is worse PR to recall bad products or not, and other sundry topics.

    A disturbing fact I learned today is that at least one individual's PowerBook G3 Series exhibited hinge failure at 9 months. I know this because the owner of that WallStreet PowerBook emailed me. I have a question about that though -- isn't this covered by the one-year warranty?

    12/8/2000, 5:15pm PST update

    Yay! Several more supportive emails and web submissions have come tumbling in. Maybe I won't have to wait until January to submit a letter to Apple.

    One person suggested that if Apple offers to fix my laptop for free (but just me) I should accept it because after publicizing this, everyone else will benefit also (by asking for and hopefully getting repairs). I don't like this approach because it doesn't guarantee that others who paid $310 or more will be reimbursed (which they deserve), and that all others' repair requests will be offered. What do you think?

    An Apple certified tech writes that about a "dozen" Wallstreets have come in for repairs at his place of work. This is further underscores the fact that my problem is widespread. I agree with anyone who says repairs should be paid for, but with defects on one to two year old PowerBooks, Apple should be the one footing the bill!

    12/8/2000, 3:35pm PST update

    I'd like to thank Mike Breeden of xlr8yourmac.com for publicizing Apple's PowerBook G3 hinge and AC port defects as well as my corrective action campaign. My main task since starting three days ago is to contact people who have my same PowerBook issue. It's not easy. The other way to achieve publicity is legal action, but that's precisely what should be avoided. I haven't done much more than email those who complained about it between October and December on Go2Mac and Apple message boards, not to mention posting on Mac boards by myself. Few people respond on the Mac boards (I assume most people don't have PowerBooks) and luckily responses have been better at more widely read PC sites like Ars Technica's Battlefront. I appreciate all suggestions -- except the duct tape idea. I don't like that one bit =)

    Several more PowerBook G3 Series owners have emailed me today. Two suggested restraint of any legalistic approach to solving this Apple problem. I want to say that legal means are a last resort, one we are lucky to have in this country, and one we probably won't have to use. It may take some time to all rally a large enough pressure group to present a joint protest letter to Apple. If Apple tries to pre-empt us in January at the Expo with a Pismo trade-in policy I wouldn't bite, because it would require me to still pay a large amount of money. And besides, Pismos have their own problems. (Are whining customers ever happy?;)

    Regarding the call from Apple customer service I am to receive on the weekend sometime, if they try to appease me with a Pismo trade-in or free repair -- but don't guarantee it for all other PowerBook customers in the same boat -- I won't bite. In fact, I think I could start preparing my "alternative strategy" at that point. One weakness could be that my PowerBook display still stays up within a decent range of upness, unlike some people whose hinges are completely broken. My case is still strong, however because the issues I (and others) are having should not exist with 18 to 24 month old products. C'mon already! I don't remember the dates anymore, but I remember the plastic base being cracked and chipped for over a year, and the AC port broke at least in June or July -- not yet 1.5 years into ownership.

    Apple PowerBook discussion forum posts deleted. I suppose this was "fair" on their part:
    Greetings,

    Your post has been removed from the PowerBook discussion forum. Expressing non-technical commentary is not appropriate for the discussion forums. See <http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?13@@.ee6bc80> for more information on the purpose of the Apple discussion forums.

    Please refrain from posting links to your site on our forum. If you would like to express your dissatisfaction to Apple please contact Customer Relations, they will know where to redirect your message for the most effect. Online you can send a response to <http://survey.info.apple.com/info.apple.com/survey/feedback/feedback.taf?function=complaintinput>.

    Ray C.
    Apple Support Discussions

    Arts Technica forum posting -- I've been getting more responses and would like to thank those who've weighed in.

    End note: my AC power port problem is getting worse -- I have to keep pushing up harder on the plug to keep up current contact. I don't know how much longer this can continue.

    12/7/2000, 3:30pm PST update

    I called Apple Support ten minutes ago. The rep pulled up my case, 8172839, and reviewed the notes from yesterday's call (mine). Obviously I'm out of my product support period, so this brings up needing a new "support agreement" -- hm that sounds like more money. Importantly, this time "flat rate repair" was explained fully: for $310, Apple will fix not only my hinge/clutch problem, but also my AC port problem and any other minor problems my PowerBook might have. (Cracked LCDs and the like cost additional, but I don't have these issues.) I was almost tempted to say yes, except I don't have $310 for anything right now.

    I explained to my rep that I didn't have an issue with him, but I felt that after researching the issue (other people's similar problems) that this $310 repair program (while somewhat appealing) is actually unfair on Apple's part and who could I complain to? Bill said my option was to have him file a "written customer escalation." So, someone is to research my issue and call back within 48 hours, and maybe they will have a way to "appease" me. I'm not at home during the week (school) so someone from Apple will call on the weekend. "Thanks for calling Apple and you have a great day." Yeah right. Anyway I am doing what I believe is right. Another friend of mine asked to see my PowerBook so I showed him the problems. He said, "you didn't pay enough for it!" Hah. Anyway, I am going "through the proper channels" right now. I'll see what happens. Apple cannot buy me off.

    12/6/2000, 7:12pm PST update

    New plan of collective action! Starting today, I will be taking names and email addresses (not home addresses) of people with the same "clutch" and AC port problems I have been putting up with for the past six months. When I reach a "critical mass" of 40-50 people, I will submit a formal letter to Apple demanding that they fix the clutch/hinge and AC port problems for all affected PowerBook G3 Series owners for free, or we will pursue less friendly means of making them do what they should already have done. (Fix their defective products out of their own $4billion pocket, not our pockets.) Going to court is not our first option, because we love Apple's products for the most part, and litigation is costly, time consuming and a last resort. I don't believe we will ever reach that level.

    To get on my list of PowerBook owners who demand redress of the flopping display hinge/clutch defect, please send your PowerBook's serial number, your name and your email address to me at mailto:kenott @ uclink.berkeley.edu?subject=PowerBook. Let's get the word out so we can resolve this soon! You have nothing to lose! If we present our complaint well together, Apple may very likely do the right thing or at least try another approach, precluding any lawsuit. Does anyone think the Pismo keyboard problem qualifies as well? (I have not kept up with Mac news for a year so I'm catching up a lot right now.) My hope is that the Apple Computer, Inc. of the future will test its products internally much more, before selling them. Secrecy and the "surprise element" don't justify bad products! Beauty is skin-deep, as one tech has supposedly said.

    12/6/2000, 6:18pm PST update

    Well, I've talked to some law school friends and also contacted a law firm. Everyone agrees that litigation is not the fastest, most harmonious way to solve problems, so I am going to wait a little bit more and try pressuring Apple more assertively. Another PowerBook G3 Series owner emailed me a few minutes ago to express appreciation for my efforts to bring this issue to Apple's attention. The emailer brings up our potential litigation class to three.

    12/6/2000, 4:25pm PST Update

    After reading many posts on Mac boards and the Apple board, I have decided that the only just way to solve this problem is to mount a massive lawsuit which may force Apple to recall our products. I will actively pursue this until a just result is achieved for all PowerBook G3 Series owners.

    12/6/2000, 1:40pm PST Update

    A fellow PowerBook G3 Series owner wrote me an email this morning to express similar frustrations with "clutch" problems. The writer explained that Apple had charged over $400 to fix his problem, after ample time was wasted haggling with SOS Apple (over the phone). Also, a photo essay belonging to a third party was pointed out to me, which documents the hinge defect very well: http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~ewwhite/clutch.html

    Another PowerBook G3 Series owner's experience:
    Refresh Build [English]


    -end-