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Topic: Mate in 2 (Read 1271 times) |
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Lightboxes
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #25 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 9:25am » |
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I hope you don't mean the black bishop, will help, that would have been captured at home?
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wowbagger
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #26 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 9:32am » |
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on Sep 22nd, 2003, 9:25am, Lightboxes wrote:| I hope you don't mean the black bishop, will help, that would have been captured at home? |
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Are you asking T&B or me? I was thinking it might help, but I don't see how.
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Lightboxes
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #27 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 10:07am » |
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FINALLY!!!!!
I feel so proud of myself but too bad I can't take all the credit because of THUDandBLUNDER's hint. I'm actually in class right now...I ran to a computer lab after I yelled in class, "yes!".
::Assume white AND black can castle. Then this means a rook did not get out from the right hand corner but was rather promoted by a pawn. Can a rook get out of blacks defense without disturbing black's castling opportunities? Simple, either the rook moved or the king did to let out the white rook from behind enemy lines. Therefore, black can NOT castle. MWHAHAHHA. I'm not a quiter after all. 
So the solution, previously stated is correct, a1 - a7, and black can not do a thing to stop the next move at a7 - a8.
::
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 10:08am by Lightboxes » |
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wowbagger
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #28 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 10:23am » |
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on Sep 22nd, 2003, 10:07am, Lightboxes wrote:FINALLY!!!!!
I feel so proud of myself but too bad I can't take all the credit because of THUDandBLUNDER's hint. |
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Very nice, Lightboxes! And you shouldn't hide your light under a bushel just because of that very general remark of T&B. After all, he said it isn't much of a hint himself.
Quote:| I'm actually in class right now...I ran to a computer lab after I yelled in class, "yes!". |
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T&B, somehow I don't like the reasoning in this one. (I bet you saw that coming.  )
Can't we argue that Black still has the option to castle to the kingside because it can't be proved to be illegal? It's possible that it is illegal, of course, but we can't prove it, can we? The position could occur with White still allowed to castle, but it also without this option.
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #29 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 10:29am » |
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Don't start the party yet, Lightboxes.
What if the rook on d4 came from a1 or h1?
Quote:| T&B, somehow I don't like the reasoning in this one. |
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That does not surprise me. The reasoning is incomplete.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 11:35am by ThudnBlunder » |
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Lightboxes
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #30 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 1:57pm » |
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I had to modify this a few times to make it clear.
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The WHITE rook at h1 died in that area BECAUSE white can still castle. The WHITE rook at d4 was promoted by a pawn.
But the WHITE rook at d4, has to be right next to the BLACK king to get out OR in the exact place of the BLACK rook at the top right. In other words, the black king or black rook has to move to allow the WHITE rook to get out! One reason is because of check. The other reason because two rooks can't occupy the same space at the same time. Therefore, Black had to move his BLACK king or BLACK rook. Now he can't castle.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 2:40pm by Lightboxes » |
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #31 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 7:50pm » |
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Sorry, Lightboxes, but you have not proved that Black cannot castle.
The reasoning you give is pefectly correct as far as it goes. But it is incomplete.
Hence your solution of 1. Rxa7 is wrong. 
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 7:54pm by ThudnBlunder » |
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Lightboxes
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #32 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 8:17pm » |
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INCOMPLETE! I can't think of anything to add you crazy old man! (my g/f calls me this sometimes so don't feel offended)
EEEAAAHHHHHH!
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #33 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 8:39pm » |
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Quote:| The WHITE rook at h1 died in that area BECAUSE white can still castle. The WHITE rook at d4 was promoted by a pawn. |
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Briefly, why do you believe that White can still castle?
Quote:I can't think of anything to add you crazy old man! (my g/f calls me this sometimes...)
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She must be jail-bait. If you can't be good, be careful.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 9:08pm by ThudnBlunder » |
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Lightboxes
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #34 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 9:12pm » |
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The only thing I can say is that the only way I see a solution to the mate in 2 is if white can castle. Otherwise, the problem is false.
I didn't mean it that way! I'm 21 and she's 20 LOL!
Modified/added: I GET IT NOW!...White moves first, with a castling to prove he can castle...then the white rooks are lined up to check mate!
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| « Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2003, 9:14pm by Lightboxes » |
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #35 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 9:30pm » |
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Yeah, Lightboxes, that's more-or-less it. Well done! Obviously, your son will be no quitter.
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Let W = White can still castle
Let B = Black can still castle.
In an earlier post you proved
(W and B) implies notB
You wrongly concluded notB, rather than not(W and B)
In other words, we cannot prove that White cannot still castle or that Black cannot still castle.
But we can prove that they cannot both still castle.
As we cannot prove that White cannot still castle, it is legal for him to do so.
But once White castles, Black cannot do so.
Conversely, if White does not castle (eg, plays 1. Rxa7), Black can still castle.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2003, 3:19am by ThudnBlunder » |
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Barukh
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #36 on: Sep 22nd, 2003, 11:40pm » |
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on Sep 22nd, 2003, 6:56am, THUDandBLUNDER wrote:
The first one belongs in Easy. I only posted it in this thread because it's a Mate in 2.
The second one could be described as Medium, but only just.
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What about having a new forum "Chess"? Then, all this classification is settled once and forever. I have seen several brilliant chess puzzles in this forum (including the ones in this thread), and I'm sure there are many more around.
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wowbagger
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #37 on: Sep 23rd, 2003, 6:58am » |
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So we are actually playing on Schrödinger's board, aren't we?
As long as we don't know for sure, both W and B are possible. This means our board is a linear superposition of a W-board and a B-board. Once White plays 0-0-0, our board collapses to an eigenstate, namely the one which was W (as White has just castled) - which prevents Black from castling. I have to wonder how you prepared the board in this peculiar state at the beginning.
On grounds of mental health, I vote against quantum chess problems...
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| « Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2003, 7:00am by wowbagger » |
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wowbagger
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Re: Mate in 2
« Reply #38 on: Sep 23rd, 2003, 7:06am » |
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on Sep 22nd, 2003, 11:40pm, Barukh wrote:| What about having a new forum "Chess"? Then, all this classification is settled once and forever. |
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There has already been such a suggestion, a discussion about other possible new sections takes place here.
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