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Topic: Life after death (Read 15766 times) |
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towr
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Re: Life after death
« Reply #50 on: Apr 1st, 2013, 5:28am » |
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But that presupposes there is a soul, and that the "entire information" is something other than a biochemical process. There is no convincing evidence that there is something non-physical (a soul) influencing the physical (the body), nor a known way that it could.
If there is a soul, and it, rather than our brain, makes up who we are, then at the very least it is deeply influenced by the brain; as evidenced by all the natural experiments provided by brain-damage of all sorts -- things like strokes can radically change people's personality and abilities. So that would not spell much good for a soul if the brain dies; if even relatively minor brain damage has such effects, I can only imagine what total brain-death would do.
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Grimbal
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Re: Life after death
« Reply #51 on: Apr 1st, 2013, 9:33am » |
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I would even argue that if it affects the physical world (as when our decisions translate into actions), and it is affected by the physical world (as when we drink alcohol), then it is part of the physical world.
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towr
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Re: Life after death
« Reply #52 on: Apr 1st, 2013, 10:13am » |
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Yes. It would be hard to imagine some sort of non-physical interaction.
On the other hand, to name something crazy, suppose we're in a simulation and our brains are actually somewhere in a jar outside the simulation, then our mind works mostly outside of the universe and not under the same physical laws, and it'd be easy to shield it from physical examination from within the simulation. But it's difficult to interact with this world from outside without breaking physical laws (conservation of energy, momentum etc). On the other hand, cheating gets really easy in such a setup. And you can control chaotic systems with minimal interference, perhaps limited enough to get lost in quantum noise.
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Grimbal
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Re: Life after death
« Reply #53 on: Apr 1st, 2013, 1:13pm » |
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Then the physical world would include you + the jar + the computer running the simulation.
But I don't think it makes a difference whether we are in a simulation or not, as long as whoever is running it is committed to respect the laws of physics.
The idea that our "out of the world" decisions could be sneaked into the simulated physical world via quantum fluctuations just means that there could be something else than pure randomness behind quantum collapse. And that a soul could hide there.
It still would be part of the real world. And there is no reason to believe it would be set free by the death of our physical body.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2013, 1:57pm by Grimbal » |
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towr
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Re: Life after death
« Reply #54 on: Apr 1st, 2013, 10:33pm » |
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on Apr 1st, 2013, 1:13pm, Grimbal wrote:| But I don't think it makes a difference whether we are in a simulation or not, as long as whoever is running it is committed to respect the laws of physics. |
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But it would mean there is more than the physical laws, because they can't run the universe in the same way on their own. There's something extra put in from outside. There'd be an extra set 'rules' we're not privy to, can't observe, and can't use.
Quote:| It still would be part of the real world. |
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Part of the real world, yes, but not part of this physical universe. But that's what you get with any type of dualism, a "real world" that consists of more than one part.
Quote:| And there is no reason to believe it would be set free by the death of our physical body. |
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But it in this case there's clearly no reason to think it'd die with, either.
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Grimbal
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Re: Life after death
« Reply #55 on: Apr 2nd, 2013, 4:34am » |
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on Apr 1st, 2013, 10:33pm, towr wrote:But it would mean there is more than the physical laws, because they can't run the universe in the same way on their own. There's something extra put in from outside. There'd be an extra set 'rules' we're not privy to, can't observe, and can't use.
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It makes a difference to them, but not to us. Whether the laws of physics describe actual space and particles or whether they are just arbitrary rules in a program doesn't make a difference to us. We would just run on a different hardware.
Quote:But it in this case there's clearly no reason to think it'd die with, either.
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As you mentioned before, the fact that consciousness can be knocked out by damaging the brain would imply that the brain is necessary for consciousness.
I don't know what the soul is, but it seems it is tightly linked to our consciousness.
So I believe the soul would not survive being disconnected from the body. If it does, it would probably do so in eternal boredom by being deprived of a body to interact with the world (or a world).
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towr
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Re: Life after death
« Reply #56 on: Apr 2nd, 2013, 9:27am » |
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on Apr 2nd, 2013, 4:34am, Grimbal wrote:| It makes a difference to them, but not to us. Whether the laws of physics describe actual space and particles or whether they are just arbitrary rules in a program doesn't make a difference to us. We would just run on a different hardware. |
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I don't quite get what you're trying to say here. For starters which is them and which is us?
Basically what I'm saying is that if two people are playing chess, and I come along and take their kings, the rules of chess haven't changed. I wasn't part of the game, but I can break in from outside and mess it up. Same with a simulated world, it can run along with its own rules, but anyone in the the meta-reality can potential break in from the outside and do things not allowed by the rules of the world (i.e. play god).
And in a non-deterministic system, you have the extra wiggle-room to mess with a system in a way that doesn't overtly break any rules. If I control the dice, I can determine who'll win the game of monopoly; and since the winner might just as well have won by chance, no one's the wiser (if I didn't overdo things).
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| « Last Edit: Apr 2nd, 2013, 9:32am by towr » |
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Grimbal
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Re: Life after death
« Reply #57 on: Apr 7th, 2013, 8:46am » |
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on Apr 2nd, 2013, 9:27am, towr wrote:I don't quite get what you're trying to say here. For starters which is them and which is us?
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It was in the perspective of "is it possible that we are running in a simulator run by some supernatural beings?". "us" are the simulated people, "them" are those running the simulation.
Quote:Basically what I'm saying is that if two people are playing chess, and I come along and take their kings, the rules of chess haven't changed. I wasn't part of the game, but I can break in from outside and mess it up. Same with a simulated world, it can run along with its own rules, but anyone in the the meta-reality can potential break in from the outside and do things not allowed by the rules of the world (i.e. play god).
And in a non-deterministic system, you have the extra wiggle-room to mess with a system in a way that doesn't overtly break any rules. If I control the dice, I can determine who'll win the game of monopoly; and since the winner might just as well have won by chance, no one's the wiser (if I didn't overdo things). |
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My view is that if the supernatural beings (or chess players) strictly follow the laws of physics, it will bring us to existence the same as if we are running on "real" particles. Why particle exist is a mystery anyway, so they might as well be the result of a perfect simulation.
If these supernatural beings interfere, either by breaking the laws of physics or by biasing the results of some quantum measurements, then we will be able to notice them and they become part of our reality.
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algeriano
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Re: Life after death
« Reply #58 on: Dec 20th, 2013, 2:11pm » |
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Absolutely there is a life after death because we are sure that the human body is not just a body it contains soul too..so the body dies but the soul still exists
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anglia
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Re: Life after death
« Reply #59 on: Aug 15th, 2015, 1:16am » |
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I am not sure about it, because I have not seen anything that make me believe that there is a life after death. As our body contain some strong energy which is called soul, and my logic is that soul travel from one body to other to stay alive. As soul is persistent. So energy need source to alive.
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gitanas
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Re: Life after death
« Reply #60 on: Jun 22nd, 2016, 8:45am » |
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Indians have the process you can see your past lives. I don't remember the process of the name
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EdwardSmith
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Re: Life after death
« Reply #61 on: Jan 23rd, 2017, 9:45am » |
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You never stop living and you never stop dying.
Im coming back as a bird.
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