Author |
Topic: Chinese/Japanese characters (Read 28561 times) |
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender: 
Posts: 1118
|
 |
Chinese/Japanese characters
« on: Apr 26th, 2004, 2:04am » |
 Quote  Modify
|
I look at Kanji all day long. So, figure that some good ought to come of it. Anyway, the idea I had was that a lot of Japanese words are now common in English, and these words also have pictographic characters.
So, if you already know the word, then the job is already half done, all you need to do is remember the kanji (this is the term used in Japanese, so even though we are in the Chinese section, I will use the Japanese term).
I figured that if I can put up a kanji then people can try to guess the reading. It will be a word borrowed from Japanese that is in common use, so everyone should know it. And, if people do not want to guess, then I can just give away the answer or hints or something.
Also, if I put Japanese characters in the post, can everybody read them?
Well, here is the first. Let me know if you can see it, and also if you know the common English word that it represents.
é½
ŽõŽi
These both mean the same thing.
Edit/ Well, even I cannot see them after posting. Is there a way that we can use other languages on the forum?
|
| « Last Edit: Apr 26th, 2004, 2:06am by Speaker » |
 IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
towr
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Some people are average, some are just mean.
Gender:
Posts: 13730
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #1 on: Apr 26th, 2004, 2:29am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Apr 26th, 2004, 2:04am, Speaker wrote:| Edit/ Well, even I cannot see them after posting. Is there a way that we can use other languages on the forum? |
|
Only if you use images. The characterset one can read depends on the browser, not the forum (or website in general).
There are places where you can download the needed updates, but you can hardly expect everyone to do that, so images are probably a better way..
|
|
IP Logged |
Wikipedia, Google, Mathworld, Integer sequence DB
|
|
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1118
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #2 on: Apr 26th, 2004, 10:35pm » |
Quote Modify
|
The problem cannot be with my browser, because I can see Japanese characters very easily. When I typed in my post I could see them. But, after posting, they turned into goop. 
|
|
IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
towr
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Some people are average, some are just mean.
Gender:
Posts: 13730
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #3 on: Apr 26th, 2004, 11:41pm » |
Quote Modify
|
An edit box/textarea is not a webpage.. I'm pretty sure it behaves much like any other edit box/textarea in any other program on your computer..
|
|
IP Logged |
Wikipedia, Google, Mathworld, Integer sequence DB
|
|
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1118
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #4 on: Apr 27th, 2004, 12:18am » |
Quote Modify
|
Okay, I guess I understand that. But, I can look at kanji on other web pages.
I guess if I want to do this I need to make images of kanji....
How do I do that? I will try to find out. But, if there is an easy way, please tell me.
|
|
IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
Icarus
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Boldly going where even angels fear to tread.
Gender:
Posts: 4863
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #5 on: Apr 27th, 2004, 5:16pm » |
Quote Modify
|
The text box does not allow unicode character sets. We had explored this as a way to get symbolry before William was so kind as to add it. YaBB uses a reduced form of html (thus the square brackets for tags instead of the < >). It does this on purpose because there are security problems with allowing people to enter html based submissions. Part of this includes the disabling of interpretation of various unicode character sets (I have no idea why). Trying to introduce unicode characters results in a fragmentation and translation of the fragments into an extended ASCII character set. That is what you are seeing.
When you entered the character in the text box, YaBB had not yet got it's hands on it. Your browser correctly interpreted the code behind the character, so you saw what you wanted. When you posted, though, YaBB did its bit, and broke up the coding into what you see now. Sorry, but there is no way I know of to get by this censor. But even if you did, only those who have downloaded the Japanese character set would be able to see it, just as towr as said.
One basic way to create an image: display the character in any application that will (including your browser in the text window) and take a screen shot (ctrl+PrtScn), open up a picture editor - even MS paint is adequate for this - and paste your screen shot into it. Clip out and save the portion showing your character to a file (please use a fast loading format such as gif or png rather than saving it as a bitmap).
Then when you post, browse for the file with the browse button below the text entry box. The file will be copied into William's site at Berkeley.
|
|
IP Logged |
"Pi goes on and on and on ...
And e is just as cursed.
I wonder: Which is larger
When their digits are reversed? " - Anonymous
|
|
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1118
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #6 on: Apr 27th, 2004, 5:43pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Thanks Icarus. I will try it as soon as I have time today.
|
| « Last Edit: Apr 27th, 2004, 6:53pm by Speaker » |
IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1118
|
Okay, here is the first. I hope it works.
This is a kanji that you might see on the street in any large city in the west. The left side means fish, and the right side means finger (well, pretty much finger anyway). So, with that information, you can now read Japanese.
|
|
IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
John_Gaughan
Uberpuzzler
Behold, the power of cheese!
    
 
Gender:
Posts: 767
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #8 on: Apr 27th, 2004, 7:29pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Apr 27th, 2004, 5:16pm, Icarus wrote:| The text box does not allow unicode character sets. We had explored this as a way to get symbolry before William was so kind as to add it. YaBB uses a reduced form of html (thus the square brackets for tags instead of the < >). It does this on purpose because there are security problems with allowing people to enter html based submissions. Part of this includes the disabling of interpretation of various unicode character sets (I have no idea why). |
|
Unicode, specifically the UTF variations, is a potential security risk in URLs and POST data. IIS has a few Unicode exploits, and the rest are more social engineering. Googling turned up nothing useful, but I read an article or two a few months ago that described in detail what these risks are.
One issue that stands out in my memory is that it is possible to write links in the Cyrillic part of the Unicode set that are very difficult for humans to tell are not in the lower ASCII section of the set but behave differently to the server. For example, a ? or & that is not a question mark or ampersand. This can fool people into clicking on bad URLs. While the risk is probably not all that great in this forum, it is still there and black hats can be very creative.
|
|
IP Logged |
x = (0x2B | ~0x2B)
x == the_question
|
|
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1118
|
Thanks John. Now, how about a little more kanji fun. Since this is the Chinese section, here is another. I am pretty sure that it is common in Chinese, it is not very common in Japanese, but is in the dictionaries. And, of course it is a common word in English, as is the one above.
Think of Gates, or Murdoch or some other wealthy guy.
|
|
IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1118
|
Well, just in case anybody is interested.
The first one is of course "SUSHI" and the second, which is more common in Chinese is "Tycoon."
Here is another. Think of Tom Cruise...
The left side means person, and the right side means temple, which might be confusing if you think that people at temples are all peaceful and stuff...
|
| « Last Edit: May 7th, 2004, 6:41pm by Speaker » |
IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
Icarus
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Boldly going where even angels fear to tread.
Gender:
Posts: 4863
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #11 on: May 7th, 2004, 7:38pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Obviously this is "samarai"!
You know, Speaker, I bet that I could figure the next one out even without your discriptions of what the parts are.
(At least, I can if you keep using the same naming conventions for your gif files!  )
|
|
IP Logged |
"Pi goes on and on and on ...
And e is just as cursed.
I wonder: Which is larger
When their digits are reversed? " - Anonymous
|
|
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1118
|
Yes, you are correct. Try this one. There are two sets of characters. They mean the same thing. One is the traditional term, and the other it the official one.
I guess a little more hinting would make it more fair. It is a place name....
|
| « Last Edit: May 7th, 2004, 7:48pm by Speaker » |
IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
Icarus
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Boldly going where even angels fear to tread.
Gender:
Posts: 4863
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #13 on: May 7th, 2004, 8:38pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Gee, does this mean there is someplace in Japan called "try again"? No? Shucks!  The problem with pictographic characters is that they are pictures that have been "simplified". Unless you are familiar with the principles by which the simplification was made, you cannot figure out what the picture is supposed to be. With the appropriate cultural exposure to these sorts of pictures, perhaps a box with a vertical slash through it suggests something to you. Alas, for someone such as I, who has had practically no exposure to these conventions, the best it suggests is some one was really upset with a box!
|
|
IP Logged |
"Pi goes on and on and on ...
And e is just as cursed.
I wonder: Which is larger
When their digits are reversed? " - Anonymous
|
|
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1118
|
Yeah, I will return to my old naming system.
The box and slash means center or middle, and the next one, a box with a king (I have to edit this. It is not a king, it is a ball, or maybe a jewel. The king is the same except without the little mark in the bottom right.) in it means country. So, we have center country. Or, China. The long one means The People's Republic of China.
Okay, I need to adjust my method of selection. Back to the old drawing board.
Anyway, here is one that I have ready. It is the name of a big city in China, it also means kidnapped.
|
| « Last Edit: May 17th, 2004, 5:13pm by Speaker » |
IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1118
|
Okay, back to the original plan. This is a common word in English. The left character means empty, and the right one means hand. Does it look like a hand?
So, <Empty-Hand>.
The left one also means sky, and is used for airplanes and airports.
|
|
IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea
Gender:
Posts: 4489
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #16 on: May 8th, 2004, 5:16am » |
Quote Modify
|
I will stick my neck out and say
shanghai.gif says 'Shanghai'
and
karate.gif says 'karate'.
try_again.gif says 'China' followed by 'The People's Republic of China'.
Quote:| Obviously this is "samarai"! |
|
Define 'samarai'.
|
| « Last Edit: May 8th, 2004, 5:21am by ThudnBlunder » |
IP Logged |
THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
|
|
|
Icarus
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Boldly going where even angels fear to tread.
Gender:
Posts: 4863
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #17 on: May 8th, 2004, 7:06am » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 7th, 2004, 9:06pm, Speaker wrote:| Yeah, I will return to my old naming system. |
|
Why? There is nothing to figure out if the answer is right there. My bemoans about unfamiliarity with Kanji conventions doesn't mean I want the answer handed to me! However, your descriptions of what the elements represent are a needed clue for those of us who are ignorant.
|
|
IP Logged |
"Pi goes on and on and on ...
And e is just as cursed.
I wonder: Which is larger
When their digits are reversed? " - Anonymous
|
|
|
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea
Gender:
Posts: 4489
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #18 on: May 8th, 2004, 11:40am » |
Quote Modify
|
Quote:| My bemoans about unfamiliarity with Kanji conventions doesn't mean I want the answer handed to me! |
|
Sorry to intrude a trivial quibble about the English language into this esoteric discussion of the confabulated collocations of Far Eastern languages, but is 'My bemoans' the subject of the above sentence?
|
| « Last Edit: May 13th, 2004, 10:05pm by ThudnBlunder » |
IP Logged |
THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
|
|
|
Icarus
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Boldly going where even angels fear to tread.
Gender:
Posts: 4863
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #19 on: May 8th, 2004, 3:33pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Oi vey! Now you're bemoaning my bemoanings! How I bemoan when that happens!
|
|
IP Logged |
"Pi goes on and on and on ...
And e is just as cursed.
I wonder: Which is larger
When their digits are reversed? " - Anonymous
|
|
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1118
|
Okay, further adjustment.
Not turtles, and their DNA is intact. But, quiet.
The samurai are the warrior class of old time Japan. They ruled (or were in control anyway) until around 1870 or so when Japan entered the Meiji restoration and started moving towards a democracy based on militarism. As opposed to feudalism.
|
|
IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
BNC
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1732
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #21 on: May 9th, 2004, 10:35pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Ninja?
|
|
IP Logged |
How about supercalifragilisticexpialidociouspuzzler [Towr, 2007]
|
|
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1118
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #22 on: May 9th, 2004, 10:41pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Exactly right.
The one on the left means stealth, and the one on the right means person.
The kanji on the left is made of an upper part (sword) and a lower part (heart). (It also means to endure, but that meaning is not present in ninja.).
|
| « Last Edit: May 9th, 2004, 11:11pm by Speaker » |
IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
Speaker
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1118
|
Here is a new one. It has two parts. The one on the left means weak or soft. The one on the right means way or road, and it is pronunced.... Doh! No hints...
Everyone can use this in August.
|
|
IP Logged |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. <Ben Franklin>
|
|
|
BNC
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 1732
|
|
Re: Chinese/Japanese characters
« Reply #24 on: May 10th, 2004, 12:17am » |
Quote Modify
|
Judo?
{studied it for a short (very short) while back when I was a kid. From what I saw in mature students, isn't very "soft" -- but I guess it's "softer" than, say, Karate. And, offcourse, it's a Japanese word used in English.}
|
|
IP Logged |
How about supercalifragilisticexpialidociouspuzzler [Towr, 2007]
|
|
|
|
RIDDLES SITE
WRITE MATH!
Home 
Help 
Search 
Members 
Login 
Register
Reply
Notify of replies
Send Topic
Print