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Topic: Checkers Solved (Read 711 times) |
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ThudnBlunder
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Checkers Solved
« on: Jul 20th, 2007, 2:48am » |
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http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3997
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| « Last Edit: Jul 20th, 2007, 10:41am by ThudnBlunder » |
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THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
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ima1trkpny
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Re: Checkers Solved
« Reply #1 on: Jul 20th, 2007, 7:39am » |
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That rather takes the fun out of it... 
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"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." -Churchill
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Sameer
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Re: Checkers Solved
« Reply #2 on: Jul 20th, 2007, 8:36am » |
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They claim it will help in fast database searches.. hmm.. Google might be interested..
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"Obvious" is the most dangerous word in mathematics.
--Bell, Eric Temple
Proof is an idol before which the mathematician tortures himself.
Sir Arthur Eddington, quoted in Bridges to Infinity
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Barukh
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Re: Checkers Solved
« Reply #3 on: Jul 20th, 2007, 8:39am » |
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What about international checkers?
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Checkers Solved
« Reply #4 on: Jul 20th, 2007, 10:36am » |
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on Jul 20th, 2007, 8:39am, Barukh wrote:| What about international checkers? |
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I have no doubt that international checkers is also a forced draw; same for chess. The opening advantage is simply not great enough for the first player. After all, even tic-tac-toe (noughts and crosses) is a draw.
Othello (aka Reversi) is possibly next on his list. It will be interesting to find out which player has the advantage.
Marion Tinsley
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| « Last Edit: Jul 21st, 2007, 5:07am by ThudnBlunder » |
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TenaliRaman
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Re: Checkers Solved
« Reply #5 on: Jul 21st, 2007, 5:18am » |
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My masters thesis was on reinforcement learning and i have been studying these games in quite a bit of detail. However, this result is quite unexpected (its not much of a surprise being as inexperienced as i am).
On a side note ->
I was reading the link on Dr. Marion Tinsley given above. I am completely fascinated with this guy. I am beginning to wonder whether explicit memorisation of games is the only answer to successful play (i am talking in the context of both, human play and machine play). However, its fascinating to hear Dr. Tinsley say "i just know the right move". Being a professor of mathematics, i believe he must have spend atleast some time in retrospection, trying to analyse his abilities and motivation for his gameplay. Isnt this quite a common pattern of thought amongst all good players (i mean across all games)?? It seems that learning in these cases is almost inherent, so much so that it escapes the conscious part of our mind which by the way is spending its time analysing particular games and techniques.
-- AI
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Self discovery comes when a man measures himself against an obstacle - Antoine de Saint Exupery
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ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
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Re: Checkers Solved
« Reply #6 on: Jul 21st, 2007, 8:24pm » |
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on Jul 21st, 2007, 5:18am, TenaliRaman wrote:| However, this result is quite unexpected. |
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What result? That best play results in a draw? I don't think that was unexpected by many.
Quote:However, its fascinating to hear Dr. Tinsley say "i just know the right move".
-- AI |
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In checkers, as in chess, instant pattern recognition is a prerequisite for strong play.
on Jul 21st, 2007, 5:18am, TenaliRaman wrote:My masters thesis was on reinforcement learning and i have been studying these games in quite a bit of detail.
-- AI |
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Here is an interesting paper. It seems to have been written in 2005 yet has an error on the very first page where it claims that it is impossible to arrive at a position with 24 kings.
But this was refuted in 2004 by Thud, Blunder, et al. 
Edit: Dammit, I edited the post and the game score collapsed. The forum's functionality is not what it used to be.
Solved Board Games
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| « Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2007, 9:29am by ThudnBlunder » |
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THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: Checkers Solved
« Reply #7 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:54pm » |
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Quote:| I was reading the link on Dr. Marion Tinsley given above. I am completely fascinated with this guy. |
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Here is an interesting ebook about him. 
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JohanC
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Re: Checkers Solved
« Reply #9 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 3:16am » |
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on Jul 21st, 2007, 8:24pm, ThudanBlunder wrote:Here is an interesting paper. It seems to have been written in 2005 yet has an error on the very first page where it claims that it is impossible to arrive at a position with 24 kings.
But this was refuted in 2004 by Thud, Blunder, et al. |
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Hi, T&B,
If I understand that 2005 paper correctly, they mean that the 24 kings position is never reached in their search tree. They don't need to. They don't have an answer to every possible position, only to the ones that can be reached if their program is allowed to make its moves starting from the official starting position. Each time, they have a "good enough" answer to whichever move of their opponent. For example, they don't allow the game to start with one or more random moves.
Cheers,
Johan
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