Author |
Topic: Easy: Knight and Dragon (Read 19383 times) |
|
towr
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Some people are average, some are just mean.
Gender: 
Posts: 13730
|
 |
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #50 on: Aug 21st, 2004, 5:53am » |
 Quote  Modify
|
on Aug 20th, 2004, 11:22am, rmsgrey wrote:| There's also the question of how mixing creates pure water - how can the water in a glass tell whether its well 1 water to which well 2 water has been added, or well 2 water to which well 1 water has been added? |
|
Magic, duh 
|
|
 IP Logged |
Wikipedia, Google, Mathworld, Integer sequence DB
|
|
|
jmlyle
Newbie
Gender:
Posts: 31
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #51 on: Aug 21st, 2004, 2:00pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Aug 20th, 2004, 6:54am, colby wallace wrote:You people are not getting the rules to the original actual
riddle....
|
|
Actually, I'm pretty certain that this is NOT the original riddle. I'm not sure what it says currently, but back when this forum formed, the riddle was:
Quote:A dragon and knight live on an island. This island has seven poisoned wells, numbered 1 to 7. If you drink from a well, you can only save yourself by drinking from a higher numbered well. Well 7 is located at the top of a high mountain, so only the dragon can reach it.
One day they decide that the island isn't big enough for the two of them, and they have a duel. Each of them brings a glass of water to the duel, they exchange glasses, and drink. After the duel, the knight lives and the dragon dies.
Why did the knight live? Why did the dragon die? |
|
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
rmsgrey
Uberpuzzler
    
Gender:
Posts: 2873
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #52 on: Aug 22nd, 2004, 7:55am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Aug 20th, 2004, 11:22am, rmsgrey wrote:| Of course, if it's all magic, then of course it could work, but in that case you should mention explicitly that you can neutralise water by mixing it outside the body if that fact is important to the intended solution |
|
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
The Deacon
Guest
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #53 on: Mar 2nd, 2005, 1:54am » |
Quote Modify
 Remove
|
I would have to agree with the solution where the knight drinks water beforehand, and brings a glass of plain water to the dragon.
It does not say that there is a source of pure water... but then again it doesn't say there isn't. It just says that 7 poisoned wells EXIST. And the dragon and knight MUST have a source of regular pure water or else they would both have died a long time ago; it doesn't say that the two have to drink only from the wells daily.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Krista
Newbie
Posts: 1
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #54 on: May 25th, 2005, 2:55pm » |
Quote Modify
|
OK. Here is my solution to the riddle in which the knight would live and the dragon would die.
The knight drinks from well 1 before the duel.
The dragon brings water from well 7 for the knight.
The knight brings ocean water for the dragon.
They switch glasses.
The dragon drinks from well 7 to cure himself but dies instead.
The knight survives because the well 7 water cured him.
I think that the knight using the ocean water (neutral) is valid because it falls within the parameters of facts given in the riddle (they are on an ISLAND!) 
I wouldn't agree with the notion of the knight coming up with plain water out of nowhere. I like the idea of neutralizing Well 1 water with Well 2 water, however I'm not sure it would work.
The only argument I would give with my solution is that the dragon may notice the distinct taste of the ocean water and not drink Well 7 water after. But hey, do dragons have a sense of taste? 
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
alex suvorov
Guest
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #55 on: Jun 13th, 2005, 5:47pm » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
Yes, it is an elegant solution because the problem assumes that the Knight is good and Dragon is evil. The Tom's answer totaly agrees with this assumtion.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Deedlit
Senior Riddler
Posts: 476
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #56 on: Jun 13th, 2005, 5:51pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I don't really see what good and evil have to do with it. If the knight doesn't want to kill the dragon, he shouldn't show up for the duel.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
n0ser
Guest
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #57 on: Jun 24th, 2005, 7:59pm » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
has anyone sujested that the knight drank from a lower numbered well before the duel and when he drank the water that the dragon gave him it only neutralized the poision that he had already drank?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
paul schmitz
Guest
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #58 on: Jun 30th, 2005, 10:31am » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
yes, they have.
this is a decent riddle but if you allow for the dragon to be as smart as the knight, then there is no way to guarantee a solution because the dragon can do everything that the knight can do. i'd like to see the original riddle.
Here's an addition: assume that if you have been poisoned then there is only enough time to drink from one well before you will die.
The problem with the original puzzle and my scenario is that there is no way to guarantee the solution. In other people's answers, the dragon could assume that the only way the knight thinks he can kill the dragon is to use pure water. Here, the dragon will drink nothing. On top of that, though, the knight could have thought of this scenario as well, and could have given him any water to kill him.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
qt31416
Newbie
Posts: 2
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #59 on: Jun 30th, 2005, 12:40pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I don't see the point why most of you assumed that the dragon will get the water from well 7. assuming that the dragon knows how to count, then why in the world would he take the water from well #7.
i still think that the riddle is lossely stated. and with some of the guys' arguments with mixing water from different wells... did you even think first if dragons ever existed?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
paul schmitz
Guest
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #60 on: Jul 2nd, 2005, 12:07am » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
most likely, the water is tainted and the knight is hallucinating. The entire story about different wells and poison cures is imaginary. The dragon is actually a moss-covered rock sitting near a cave.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Jim Lane
Guest
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #61 on: Jul 2nd, 2005, 2:36am » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
It can't be assumed that the knight and dragon have access to potable water, simply because they've survived until now. Perhaps they can gather and drink only a negligible amount of rain water, but the rain supports plants, and they get the moisture they need by eating the fruit. (Yes, I know that dragons aren't classically depicted as scarfing down peaches and getting the juice all over their snouts. They aren't classically depicted as using poisoned wells, either.)
It can't even be assumed that they have access to ocean water. Perhaps the island's shore consists entirely of steep cliffs that the knight can't climb up or down. If the dragon flies down to the sea and tries to dip in a glass, the waves and the ocean spray get enough water on his body to cool him to the point where he can't maintain his magical internal fire, which is essential to dragon metabolism.
Of course, it also can't be assumed that they don't have access to non-poisoned water.
If the dragon's internal fire means that he could just try breathing fire on the knight, then probably the knight has a magic sword. In a duel of fiery breath against magic sword, each antagonist has a significant risk of being killed. Each judges his chance of survival to be better with the water duel.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Deepak Agarwal
Guest
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #62 on: Jul 19th, 2005, 1:38am » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
There are many solutions and assumptions. but I think the most appropriate answer is like this:
The riddle says that "If you drink from a well, you can only save yourself by drinking from a higher numbered well". It does not says the highest numbered well. So I assume that its like if you drink from well 1 then you can save yourself by drinking from well 2 and so on. Now because only dragon could go to well 7 so he brings the water from well 6 as he thought that knight can never reach well 7 and would die. Now here is what happens in the duel:
Before the duel knight drinks the poisoned water from the lowest well, well-1 and then brings the plain water to the duel (I assume it was available on the island otherwise how could they survive) (or perhaps he takes half of glass of water from well 1 and fill other half from well 2 which neutralizes the water) and dragon brings the water from well 6. The exchage the glasses. Knight gets cured with the water of well 6 and dragon run towards the well 7 and drinks the water of well 7. But as he was given plain water thus well 7 does not cure him rather poisoned him so he dies.
Thus knight survives and dragon dies.
Do you have any other concrete answer?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
SuperSaiyan
Guest
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #63 on: Sep 18th, 2005, 10:12am » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
Behold! Both of them have a way of guaranteeing their 100% survival!
Suppose we denote N to being at state N, i.e being poisoned from well N (N=0 means cured), and M(N) means drinking from well M when in state N (0(N) = N because drinking plain water does not change the state). Suppose that X is the unknown water that is brought to the duel.
Knight's way of guaranteeing his survival: 2(1(X(1)))
Drink from well 1 before the duel.
Drink the water the dragon brought (now the knight is either cured or poisoned from well 1)
Drink from well 1 again (now the knight is poisoned from well 1, for sure)
Drink from a well numbered higher than 1, say 2, and be cured.
Dragon's way of guaranteeing his survival: 7(1(X))
Drink the water the knight brought.
Drink from well 1 (now the dragon is poisoned for sure).
Drink from well 7 and be cured.
(OR do what the knight did)
If the dragon had numerous ways of guaranteeing his survival 100% and yet he died, the riddle is flawed, because in that case why one could say for example:
"The dragon drank the water from well 1 that the knight brought him, and refused to cure himself afterwards since he acknowledged the knight's superiority."
or: "as the dragon was raising the cup to his lips, the knight drew his sword and stabbed him!"
hey, actually someone said that =)
Stupid dragon. Screw him, that serves him right.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Kayback
Newbie
Posts: 1
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #64 on: Oct 16th, 2005, 11:19am » |
Quote Modify
|
Honestly I'm no good at these things, but personally I think this one is flawed.
It states "if you drink from a well, you can only save yourself by drinking from a higher numbered well" It doesn't clarify if this would act as an antidote, or kill you as well unless you got a higher number as well. Ad infinitum.
I DO like the clear water one, and I support the taking the water that surrounds the island more than a mixing of the waters.
KBK
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
hereyago
Newbie
Posts: 2
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #65 on: Nov 29th, 2005, 12:06am » |
Quote Modify
|
This is how it works:
The knight drinks from well #1. Then he brings a glass of well #1 water. And it is most likely that the dragon will bring #7. They switch glasses and the knight is cured and dragon is poisoned.
They duel and dragon dies because the question does not state that they had time to go drink from another well between their glass drink and duel.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
hereyago
Newbie
Posts: 2
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #66 on: Nov 29th, 2005, 12:06am » |
Quote Modify
|
Or the knight can just SLAY THE FREAKING DRAGON during the duel.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Josh Q
Guest
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #67 on: Nov 29th, 2005, 11:01pm » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
Just wondering... why can't the dragon just bring water from well 1? How would the knight live, since he drank the water that the dragon gave him (or her, for you PC folks)?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Three Hands
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 715
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #68 on: Nov 30th, 2005, 4:11pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I think SuperSaiyan summed up the solution best a few posts above. Try following through the working, and if you're still confused, ask again 
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
kimmy
Guest
|
 |
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #69 on: Dec 21st, 2005, 11:02pm » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
ok solved it
the knight drinks from well 1 and brings normal water the dragon brings water from well 7. when the night drinks it it cures him of the poison from well1, then the dragon flies up to well 7 to cure himself of the poison he thinks he has ingested and it kills him
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Arrkhal
Guest
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #70 on: Dec 24th, 2005, 3:37am » |
Quote Modify
Remove
|
Quote:You people are not getting the rules to the original actual
riddle. Here's the real skinny on this:
A dragon and a knight lived in a valley. In this valley there
were six poison wells on the side of a mountain.
...
The rules of the duel:
They would each bring two glasses of water and give one glass
to the other. And then the other would have to drink it.
Then they would the second glass, which they brought for themselves.
On the day of the duel, the knight and the dragon met.
They exchanged glasses and drank the water in the glasses.
Then they drank the water in their second bottle.
The dragon died and the knight lived. Why?
...
There is no way to *insure* one's survival actually.
In reality, it is an elaborate game of one upsmanship, |
|
Actually, in the supposedly original version, the dragon can insure his survival, while the knight cannot.
If the dragon drinks from well 5 before the contest, and has his glass full of water #6, his survival is guaranteed. Nothing the knight can get is an antidote to water #5, so the second glass of water 6 will always be a cure.
The knight, on the other hand, would only be able to guarantee survival if he uses a trick glass that has two compartments, or some other way to keep two different types of water seperate. Then he'd be able to pre-poison himself from well 1, drink what the dragon gives him, drink some more water #1, and then drink some water #2. Just like the solution for the 7-well version. But if he's stuck with a regular glass and can't somehow rig up a way to keep two waters seperate, it could go either way for him.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Threeme2189
Newbie
Gender:
Posts: 3
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #71 on: Jun 12th, 2006, 6:43am » |
Quote Modify
|
asuming that the island they are both on is surrounded by non lethal but very salty sea water i think i might have a partial solution involving a smart knight and a less smart dragon.
the knight drinks from well 1 and brings the dragon water from any well mixed with sea water.
the dragon brings water from well 7.
when they both drink each others water the knight is cured from his self poisoning and the dragon believes the knight wants him to poison himself with water from well 7 (that is incurable) and that the water the knight gave him is purely sea water so he drinks from no well after that and eventually dies.
i don't think what i posted is 100% right but i do assume that they can use sea water because of the fact that they are on an island.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
kiochi
Newbie
Posts: 42
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #72 on: Dec 20th, 2006, 8:02am » |
Quote Modify
|
OK, so we know the dragon dies and the knight lives and we have to construct a scenario in which this will occur. I can think of two: one with a stupid dragon and a semi-clever knight, and one with a stupid knight and an insightful dragon:
A) Knight brings water and pre-drinks a poison, then the dragon brings either 6 or 7, and drinks from 7 afterwards.
B) The dragon expects scenario (A), so it brings water instead of a high-level poison. The stupid knight doesn't drink anything beforehand--just hopes for the best, and gives the dragon poison number 6 (the most powerful he has access to). After the duel, the dragon dies of the poison it thought was water, while the knight will do fine without drinking anything.
In either case we get the outcome we were told to explain.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Icarus
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Boldly going where even angels fear to tread.
Gender:
Posts: 4863
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #73 on: Dec 20th, 2006, 6:21pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I wouldn't call the dragon very insightful for your second scenario, either. If he were insightful, he would have realized how to ensure his own life, and given a better chance poisoning the knight.
Either one can save themselves by the following strategy: Drink from #1 beforehand, Drink from #1 again afterwards, then Drink from any higher numbered well. The first drink means they are poisoned by #1. If their opponent brings higher-well water, it will cure them, then they repoison themselves and cure themselves once again. On the other hand, if their opponent brings either plain water or more well #1 water, they are not cured, and the third dose makes no change. The fourth dosing, with higher-well water, cures it all.
Since the dragon dies, we know he did not do this. So he wasn't insightful enough. Since the knight lives, he was either insightful, or lucky. (And as for what the dragon should have brought - I suggest well #1 water. At least this way the knight is poisoned, and it is just as likely to be successful against any strategy of the knight's as ordinary water is.)
|
|
IP Logged |
"Pi goes on and on and on ...
And e is just as cursed.
I wonder: Which is larger
When their digits are reversed? " - Anonymous
|
|
|
simonu
Newbie
Posts: 1
|
|
Re: Easy: Knight and Dragon
« Reply #74 on: Oct 12th, 2009, 6:25pm » |
Quote Modify
|
they are on an island. the knight brings water from the sea and drinks water from well 1 before meeting the dragon. the dragon either brings water from number 6 or number 7 (being higher wells than those unreachable for the knight) or sea water.
The drinking for the knight neutralizes the poison. after drinking the dragon's water, he drinks again from well 1 and after from well 2. If the dragon brought him sea water, he would just have taken a bit more of well 1 water, neutralized by the drinking of well 2 water. if the dragon brought well 6 or 7 water, that would neutralize the first well 1 water. the further drinking would auto-counter.
the dragon does not know what he is drinking. he might receive sea water or poisoned water. if he received poisoned water, he has to drink from well 7 afterwards, if he received sea water, the drinking kills him. so he cannot be sure whether to drink or not, and will have 50% probability, unless he drinks something before, as the knight did.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
|
RIDDLES SITE
WRITE MATH!
Home 
Help 
Search 
Members 
Login 
Register
Reply
Notify of replies
Send Topic
Print