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Topic: Popomatic and Trouble (Read 11057 times) |
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Popomatic and Trouble
« on: Apr 14th, 2003, 1:29am » |
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My query:
What is the best strategy to win the game of Trouble?
Trouble is a children's game that is popular in the US, and maybe other countries. It consists of a board in the center of which is a round plastic dome that is positioned on a spring mechanism. In the dome there is a single die that bounces when the dome is pushed down and released. This action is meant to produce a random selection ranging from 1 to 6. (Whether that is true in reality or not is a different question, lets assume that it is).
Surrounding the plastic dome are 28 spaces. At an interval of seven spaces are the home and the finish of each player. The players must move all four of their pieces from home around the board past the other players homes and finishes to their own finish; a total of 28 spaces, plus four spaces for the home.
While traveling around the board it is possible to land on a space that is occupied by another player, and thus send them back to their home.
The players need to roll a six to leave their home and start travelling around the board. When a six is used to leave home no points are used for travelling (you just get to move out onto the board) Players who roll a six get to roll again. If you do not use the six to move a piece out of home, then it is worth six spaces of movement.
That explanation is for people who do not know the game, but I think that if you do not know the game it will be difficult to answer.
What is the better strategy to move all four pieces around the board before the other three opponents and without getting landed on and sent home?
A. Use every six that you roll to move pieces out onto the board, and move all the pieces you can get out of home (maximum of 4) on the board at the same time.
B. Move only one piece onto the board at a time, and use any subsequent sixes to move that single piece forward six spaces until it reaches home. Then start rolling again, trying to get a six, to get your next piece out of home.
Note: If you have no pieces on the board (ie they are all in home or in finish) then all rolls except sixes are forfeit.
Confession: I do not know the answer. I expect that it will take a little probability theory or maybe chaos theory  to get the answer. I do have an opinion, developed through observation, which I will be glad to post later.
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wowbagger
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Re: Popomatic and Trouble
« Reply #1 on: Apr 14th, 2003, 4:29am » |
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I don't claim to know the best strategy, but maybe you're interested in the following:
In the German variant, you have to move a piece out of home if you throw a six (and have any pieces at home). So your decision lies in leaving one (or more) pieces close to home and travel all around the board with a loner or move more pieces in a group.
You can't use all your sixes to bring one piece to the finish before starting to play with your second piece.
As a side note, I think the original game from which these variants for children (and adults) are derived is called Pachisi.
If you ask me for my strategy I won't tell you of course! (Just in case we might face a Trouble-duel sometime.) 
On the other hand, I haven't been playing this game for years now, so I would be forced to rely on luck anyway. 
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| « Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2003, 4:31am by wowbagger » |
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Icarus
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Re: Popomatic and Trouble
« Reply #2 on: Apr 14th, 2003, 3:43pm » |
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On some general principles, but without any actual calculation to back it up, I would say that the best strategy is at least close to this: Any time you roll a 6 and have a piece in home, get it out. Move each piece off of your start position (in case you need to bring another piece out - it's been a long time since I played this game, but I assume that if your start position is blocked, you can't bring a new piece out). But other than this, run 1 piece at at time around the track.
The reasons:
1) If you use your sixes to move a piece around the board when you still have a piece at home, when that piece reaches the finish, you risk wasting a lot of turns waiting for a new six to appear before you can move again.
2) Assuming that your pieces are equally likely to be hit on every part of the track, you will minimize your losses from being hit if the pieces are close to home than when they are nearly to the finish. So you leave most of your pieces close to home, while only exposing 1 at a time to the higher risk of moving around the board.
What this does not take into account is the greater chance to hit other players pieces by moving en masse. I have simply assumed that the advantage of this is less than the loss from greater exposure.
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Re: Popomatic and Trouble
« Reply #3 on: Apr 14th, 2003, 5:05pm » |
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Recently I have been playing with my sons, ages 5 and 8, and my wife. You can see that my interest in a winning strategy is more than a purely intellectual pursuit. I want to win. 
I didn't notice a rule stating that you had to move a piece out of your home if you get a six, but I will take a look at the rules again. Anyway, we play that you have the option.
I always move all my pieces out. And then try to move them all around the board together. I liken this strategy to the heard behavior of certain animals. However, over the last few weeks that we have been playing, this does not seem to be the winningest strategy.
My youngest son, 5, moves one piece at a time. (Even though we urge him to use his sixes when they come up. Using sixes would be analogous to the oportunistic feeding patterns of wolves and other carnivores.) But, he refuses, and moves one piece at a time. Then he usually gets another six in a timely fashion. (This is the luck factor, maybe related to the actions of subatomic particles, which seem to be guided by something unknown.)
He wins an inordinate amount of the time with this strategy. I think it is because this is a more efficient use of rolls of the die. Two assumptions: 1. He only needs 4 sixes (every piece I move out that gets sent back requires me to roll another six) also by using any sixes he gets to move his single piece, he shortens the time he is in danger. 2. He has few targets on the board that can be sent back (any piece that is sent back is essentially a waste of all the rolls used to move that piece).
This seems to have some attributes of Icarus's strategy. I should change my strategy, but I do not get enough sixes like some people with a more direct connection to their origins at the molecular level. 
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Icarus
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Re: Popomatic and Trouble
« Reply #4 on: Apr 14th, 2003, 8:24pm » |
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While it has been some time since I played trouble, I have played parchesi (this is the spelling on the particular game I was playing, so I will use it) many times. There, I have found it very difficult at times to get out of home, so I am hesitant to suggest passing up the oportunity to move out when it comes. But it could be that the risk of lost movement points from having all four pieces out to be hit outweighs the risk of being caught unable to move. Still, I would think that keeping at least two men out and active would be wise.
The only advantage I can see to the "move them as a herd" strategy is that it makes it more likely that you will be able to hit someone else, and I am not entirely sure of that, since everyone else has to pass your home, where your other players would be congregated by my strategy. I am quite sure that the herd strategy increases your average "lost points" from having pieces hit and sent home. It means that all of your pieces spend ~4 times as long traveling through the high-cost regions.
It appears that your 5-year-old is a better strategist than you!
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Speaker
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Re: Popomatic and Trouble
« Reply #5 on: Apr 14th, 2003, 9:09pm » |
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Icarus, I think you may be right.
And, true to your namesake, there is probably a good greek tragedy in there somewhere. A little father son dispute, with the mother protecting the children by avoiding sending them home, but relentlessly attacking the father's position. Not to mention the vengence sought for any overt signs of agression by the pater.
Oh, well, I guess your post didn't really suggest that much.
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SWF
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Re: Popomatic and Trouble
« Reply #6 on: Apr 14th, 2003, 9:11pm » |
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Those pesky 5 year olds have an uncanny ability to pop 6's or whatever number they need to send you back to start.
Whether to use a 6 to get out of start or to move your piece, of course, depends on the situation and where you opponent's pieces are. I always thought it wasteful to use a 6 to get out of start, since a measly 1 will do the same thing and moving a piece 6 spaces is almost two turns worth of spaces. Of course, it is no fun to have to waste a turn because of having all pieces in start. I'd say a rule of thumb is to move a piece 6 spaces if you already have another movable piece out of start, otherwise start a new one.
It is good to have at least two movable pieces so you have a choice in your moves. This allows you to stay within striking distance behind an opponent without having to pass and leave yourself open to attack.
As I recall, you are not permitted to pass your own pieces and you also need to move your pieces into the finish safety zone with an exact roll of the die. This means that getting a piece into finish is even tougher than getting out of start. So it is a good idea to get a piece near finish as soon as possible so it is waiting to move into place when the needed number comes up.
Another tip is to minimize the number of different rolls your opponent can be thrilled with. For example, if you leave a piece 2 spaces in front of an opponent, he will love a roll of 1 (get out of start), 6 or 2. If you are instead 1 space in front of his piece, only a roll of 1 or 6 is really good for him, and a 1 leaves him in a dilemma. Similarly maximize what is good for you. Try to make it so different numbers get you out of start, into finish, and send back an opponent. That way you are more likely to get a roll that really helps.
If you carefully study these tactics you should be able to consistently beat your 5 year old.
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Re: Popomatic and Trouble
« Reply #7 on: Apr 14th, 2003, 9:18pm » |
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I will put your strategies into practice the next time the pesky one lets me play. But, it seems that you can get a player out of home with a roll of a 1.
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SWF
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Re: Popomatic and Trouble
« Reply #8 on: Apr 14th, 2003, 9:49pm » |
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Whoops, I am confusing what is needed to get out of start with a similar game, "Aggravation". If only 6 can get you out of start, then that would change some of my suggestions. If you are not playing for high stakes you might still want to try my tips anyway. Sorry about that.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2003, 9:50pm by SWF » |
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Re: Popomatic and Trouble
« Reply #9 on: Apr 14th, 2003, 10:19pm » |
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Is aggravation the game with cones, that you stack up as you go around the board. Then memory fails, but it is similar to trouble, right?
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SWF
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Re: Popomatic and Trouble
« Reply #10 on: Apr 15th, 2003, 6:17am » |
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The game with stacked up cones is Headache, which also uses a Pop-O-Matic. Aggravation is a typical-get men out of start and race around the board to finish- send men back to start by landing on them-type game. It involves rolling a die to move, the gimmick being shortcuts that make the trip around the board quicker. I don't remember Parchesi very well, it it might be most similar to that.
By the way, I never trusted to Pop-O-Matics for being very random. Maybe I just felt that way because it sometimes takes so long to get out of start.
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aero_guy
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Re: Popomatic and Trouble
« Reply #11 on: Apr 15th, 2003, 2:48pm » |
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I have seen bu never played these games. I have, however, played quite a bit of Sorry, which has some interesting strategy with it. You can use two men to block the path and there is a nice safe area right in front of your home. Strategy here is to have two men move together around the board and use your roles to put men near the end in when you can. Gets interesting.
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maryl
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Re: Popomatic and Trouble
« Reply #12 on: Apr 15th, 2003, 3:15pm » |
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I've played Trouble many a day with my kids, and it's mainly a matter of luck, but I do think moving one guy at a time is a better strategy. At least move the first guy ahead enough before moving another-just seems to do it for me.
Kick butt! And you do need to move out of Home when you roll a six-definitely.
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