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Topic: White to Play and Win (II) (Read 1142 times) |
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ThudnBlunder
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This is a standard chess puzzle.
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THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
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Vaio
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #1 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 8:58pm » |
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Here goes my attempt at the solution (and at chess notation..)
1. Nc6+ ...
now black has three possible choices, Kb6, Kb7, and Ka8.
If black moves to Ka8...
1. Nc6+ Ka8
2. e8=Q+ Kb7
3. Qd7+...
black has two options.. Kb6 or Ka8. if black moves to Ka8, white should play Qc8#. if black moves to Kb6..
3. Qd7+ Kb6
4. Bf2+ Nd4
5. Bxd4+ Kb5
6. Qd5#
Now, if black had originally moved to Kb6 or Kb7
1. Nc6+ Kb6
2. Ba5+...
black can move Kxc6, Kb7 or Kc5. if black moves Kb7 or Kc5, then white should do e8=Q since now, even if black moves Nc7+, white can Bxc7... and white should now have a good enough advantage to win. but if black does Kxc6, then:
2. Ba5+ Kxc6
3. e8=Q+...
this leaves black either Kb7 or Kc5.
3. e8=Q+ Kc5
4. Qc8+ Kd4
5. Bb6+ Ke4
6. Qc4+ Nd4
7. Qxd4#
or....
3. e8=Q+ Kb7
4. Qd7+... and i think that for any move black makes, there is a move white can make such that white wins (eventually, that is).
hopefully i didn't miss anything.. or maybe there's a black counter move that i didn't notice. and i hope the hide tags work
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vaio
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #2 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 9:07pm » |
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oops, something happened and it posted 5 times... i tried removing it but seems like i can't. (when i posted, it took a while to load, i guess it was taking it's time posting it several times) anyways, sorry for the trouble but can someone remove the extra posts? (especially if i have some error in it...)
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #3 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 9:08pm » |
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Quote:| hopefully i didn't miss anything.. |
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You seem to have omitted the 1. Nc6+ Kb7 line.
('Remove' should work on your extra posts.)
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| « Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2003, 9:58pm by ThudnBlunder » |
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towr
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #4 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 11:42pm » |
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on Oct 6th, 2003, 9:07pm, vaio wrote:| sorry for the trouble but can someone remove the extra posts? |
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I removed the extra posts for you. If you register you can remove and edit your own posts and compete in getting the highest post-count  .
on Oct 6th, 2003, 9:08pm, THUDandBLUNDER wrote:| ('Remove' should work on your extra posts.) |
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Only if he were a registered member.
At least it gives me a chance to be usefull as a moderator
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #5 on: Oct 12th, 2003, 11:13pm » |
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I need a hint, but a small hint.
Does the white bishop get captured by the end of the longest (if there are more than one variation) solution?
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #6 on: Oct 13th, 2003, 6:10am » |
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Quote:| Does the white bishop get captured by the end of the longest (if there are more than one variation) solution? |
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BIG HINT: On the contrary, it delivers mate.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2003, 6:10am by ThudnBlunder » |
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #7 on: Nov 4th, 2003, 2:23am » |
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As nobody has solved this puzzle (or IMHO is likely to), here is a link to its solution.
It's well worth playing through!
http://chessbase.com/puzzle/puzz16b.htm
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| « Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2003, 6:32am by ThudnBlunder » |
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BNC
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #8 on: Nov 4th, 2003, 4:26am » |
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So, does it mean you're going to track us all down and kill us?
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How about supercalifragilisticexpialidociouspuzzler [Towr, 2007]
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #9 on: Nov 4th, 2003, 6:28am » |
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Quote:| So, does it mean you're going to track us all down and kill us? |
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Not just yet. You see, I have exhausted that source.
What do you think of the solution? Neat, eh?
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| « Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2003, 6:32am by ThudnBlunder » |
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Barukh
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #10 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 1:41am » |
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on Nov 4th, 2003, 6:28am, THUDandBLUNDER wrote:| What do you think of the solution? Neat, eh? |
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The solution is indeed one of the most beautiful in its category I've ever seen.
However... Did you read the whole article, THUD&BLUNDER? There is a flaw in analysis, and this position is actually a draw! There were several attempts to modify it without destroying the beauty of the solution. I do not want to reiterate the artricle; the relevant parts are the paragraph starting with "A beautiful, fascinating problem..." and the Addendum.
Lesson learned: Beauty is very fragile 
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #11 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 3:11am » |
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Quote:| However... Did you read the whole article, THUD&BLUNDER? There is a flaw in analysis, and this position is actually a draw! |
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Yes, when I posted the puzzle the solution was not available online. When I read the solution (needless to say, I couldn't solve it myself) I let it be. (Besides, we humble Untermenchen are unable to replace attachments.) But, as you indicate, starting with the b5 knight on e5 rescues the puzzle. As does a reader's suggestion of adding a pawn at a2.
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unkwoop
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #12 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 4:29am » |
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I think you mean d5 in your mirrored board?
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #13 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 5:31am » |
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Quote:| I think you mean d5 in your mirrored board? |
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Yes, you are right. How careless of me. 
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Icarus
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #14 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 3:34pm » |
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on Nov 5th, 2003, 3:11am, THUDandBLUNDER wrote:| Besides, we humble Untermenchen are unable to replace attachments. |
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Alas, we Ubermenchen are unable to accomplish this either! Only the all-powerful administrator may do this task (unless this is one for which he must turn himself to the great root for assistance)!
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #15 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 8:37pm » |
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Well well.
I haven't looked at the solution yet and closed my eyes on the position Thud gave. Anyway, if it's true that it's a draw ??...
I did come up with a draw solution but I'm not sure if the draw is fool proof. I obviously gave up on the draw solution since white is suppose to win.
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: White to Play and Win (II)
« Reply #16 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 11:36pm » |
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Quote:| I did come up with a draw solution but I'm not sure if the draw is fool proof. I obviously gave up on the draw solution since white is suppose to win. |
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What was your drawing line after 1) Nc6+ Kb7?
Now begin again with the b5 knight on d5 and mate in 14. (No peeking!) 
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| « Last Edit: Nov 5th, 2003, 11:40pm by ThudnBlunder » |
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