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Topic: Fork in the Road I (Read 9552 times) |
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AutumnEffect
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Fork in the Road I
« on: Aug 23rd, 2006, 3:48pm » |
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I'm sorry to bother you all, but, I'm having a hard time figuring out Fork In Road I.
Is there anyone that knows the answer and can tell me before I go crazy?
Thanks.
-AutumnEffect
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| « Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2006, 5:53pm by Icarus » |
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Icarus
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #1 on: Aug 23rd, 2006, 5:58pm » |
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You can find several answers in this thread. The one in the first post is the intended answer, though Chronos was right that it needs to be tightened up so that there are only two possible replies ("Which of these two villages do you come from?").
But you can gain some insight by reading the rest of the thread. James Fingas in particular has some very good points to make.
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"Pi goes on and on and on ...
And e is just as cursed.
I wonder: Which is larger
When their digits are reversed? " - Anonymous
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LaCiTy
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #2 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 5:47am » |
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U just need some elementary Bool algebra. It will help you solve this kind of problems without even thinking.
Say a true assertion is valued +1 and a false one is valued -1.
One is always telling the truth which can me modelled by a multiplication by 1. The other one always lies, that is turns a true assertion into a false one and a false one into a true one, provided there are only 2 modalities. Thus, it acts like a multiplication by -1.
You do not know what person you encounter that is you do not know if she will multiply by 1 or -1. As you want a certain statement, you have to find an invariant, that is something that yield the same result in both cases.
It is not difficult to see that -1x 1 always yields -1. Thus, you just have to combine the 2, that is ask a question that involve both types of person, which you can easily do by questions of the type : what would the other person answer if i were to ask him ...
... if i were to ask him where the village of the cannibals is.
You know for certain that the answer will be false (-1 x 1 = 1 x (-1)), thus the indicated village is the one you want to head to.
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rmsgrey
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #3 on: Sep 21st, 2006, 6:23am » |
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on Sep 21st, 2006, 5:47am, LaCiTy wrote:U just need some elementary Bool algebra. It will help you solve this kind of problems without even thinking.
Say a true assertion is valued +1 and a false one is valued -1.
One is always telling the truth which can me modelled by a multiplication by 1. The other one always lies, that is turns a true assertion into a false one and a false one into a true one, provided there are only 2 modalities. Thus, it acts like a multiplication by -1.
You do not know what person you encounter that is you do not know if she will multiply by 1 or -1. As you want a certain statement, you have to find an invariant, that is something that yield the same result in both cases.
It is not difficult to see that -1x 1 always yields -1. Thus, you just have to combine the 2, that is ask a question that involve both types of person, which you can easily do by questions of the type : what would the other person answer if i were to ask him ...
... if i were to ask him where the village of the cannibals is.
You know for certain that the answer will be false (-1 x 1 = 1 x (-1)), thus the indicated village is the one you want to head to. |
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That would be the intended answer to Fork in the Road II - but it runs into problems with people who don't never respect no double negatives.
Particularly if (as is often the case in such riddles) one of the parties is translating into another language, it would easy to mistake a deliberate itroduction of additional layers of reference for a purely syntactical elaboration.
If you had put more thought into answering this particular question, you might have discovered that there is a simpler solution in this case.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2006, 6:24am by rmsgrey » |
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dustmicester1
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #4 on: Oct 2nd, 2006, 7:11pm » |
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the one i just heard and figured out was you come to the fork and a villager is there and one path goes to sudden death and the other goes to a sure way to live. the one village always tells the true the other always lies what question do you ask.... you point one way and say if i were to ask you if this way leads to the truth village would you say yes? if its the guy from the truth village and it is the way to the truth village he would say yes and if its the lier he would say yes as well because if he says no then its the truth. i think thats right its hard for me to explain. someone can elaborate more on mine if they want
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tedwindsor
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #5 on: Apr 29th, 2007, 9:53pm » |
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Ask any one of them "If i asked him," him being the other guy, "which road leads to the city of safety, what would he say?"
and you go the opposite way, no matter which person you ask, then answer is going to be a lie.
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tedwindsor
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #6 on: Apr 29th, 2007, 9:55pm » |
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This is the same solution for Fork in the Road II
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rmsgrey
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #7 on: Apr 30th, 2007, 7:08am » |
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on Apr 29th, 2007, 9:55pm, tedwindsor wrote:| This is the same solution for Fork in the Road II |
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There's a "better" solution for this version that doesn't work for the other variation.
See if you can figure out what the significant difference between the two variants is, and how it can be exploited to get a simpler question...
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Aneon
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #8 on: Jun 26th, 2007, 2:08am » |
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You ask any twin, "What would the other twin answer to the question: which road leads toward village A", and you take the opposite. Because if you ask the one who lies, he will lie about the answer of the second twin which tells the truth ---> he tells you the way to village B.
If you ask the one who tells the truth, he will actually repeat exactly what the lier would say ----> he tells you the way to village B.
So, it does not matter whom you ask they will always show you the way to village B, and since you want to go to village A, you take the opposite.
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rmsgrey
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #9 on: Jun 27th, 2007, 9:26am » |
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on Jun 26th, 2007, 2:08am, Aneon wrote:You ask any twin, "What would the other twin answer to the question: which road leads toward village A", and you take the opposite. Because if you ask the one who lies, he will lie about the answer of the second twin which tells the truth ---> he tells you the way to village B.
If you ask the one who tells the truth, he will actually repeat exactly what the lier would say ----> he tells you the way to village B.
So, it does not matter whom you ask they will always show you the way to village B, and since you want to go to village A, you take the opposite. |
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As I said earlier, there's a "better" solution using a simpler question, that relies on a feature of this version of the riddle.
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Grimbal
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #10 on: Jun 27th, 2007, 9:40am » |
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If you want to take them by surprise and ask a very common question, ask any one:
Where do you come from?
But it is probably safer to be more specific:
Which way leads to the city from where you come?
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srn437
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #11 on: Aug 29th, 2007, 10:49am » |
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Ask them to take you to their village. Either way, it'll be the village of truth and safety. Many other answers also.
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DON_CORLEONE
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #12 on: Nov 25th, 2007, 5:31am » |
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for FORK IN THE ROAD 1 there will be a simple solution to ask which road leads to your village.
Both 1 and 2 can be solved by asking any one of them that if i had asked u 1 minute before that which road leads to ----(desired destination) what would have been ur answer.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 25th, 2007, 5:33am by DON_CORLEONE » |
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Grimbal
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #13 on: Mar 6th, 2008, 1:38pm » |
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I meant that in the sense: "Where do you come from, from this way or that way?". The guy would point at the one or the other road. Both would point at the road to the city of safety.
(edit: typo)
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| « Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2008, 2:11pm by Grimbal » |
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Random Lack of Squiggily Lines
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #14 on: Mar 6th, 2008, 1:39pm » |
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if he was from the land of cannibals, he would eat you, or if he was alive, there must be no people , because the cannibals would of eaten each other, and the guy would of been the last person
never thought that
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You can only believe i what you can prove, and since you have nothing proven to cmpare to, you can believe in nothing.
I have ~50 posts to hack a "R" into a "D". Which one?
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Grimbal
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #15 on: Mar 6th, 2008, 2:17pm » |
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OK, fixed the mistake.
Now you confuse me. The riddle asks "What question could you ask to find out which path leads to the city of safety?". So, you arrive, you ask one of them "Do I have green eyes". He says no. Now, where do you go?
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| « Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2008, 2:18pm by Grimbal » |
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onlyme722
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Re: Fork in the Road I
« Reply #16 on: Mar 6th, 2008, 4:56pm » |
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on Mar 6th, 2008, 2:17pm, Grimbal wrote:OK, fixed the mistake.
Now you confuse me. The riddle asks "What question could you ask to find out which path leads to the city of safety?". So, you arrive, you ask one of them "Do I have green eyes". He says no. Now, where do you go? |
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You know what. I just realized my mistake. It'd been a day since I read the riddle, and I just now realized that neither of them are actually GUARDING a road (for some reason I had it in my head that they each were in charge of taking post at the entrance to each city.) My mistake  . Well, oh well hahaha, all I did was make an ass of myself . I apologize for wasting your time.
I don't know what is wrong with me, the answer was right in front of me and you already said it. I humbly apologize for questioning you. I would have to agree that it's as simple as asking "which road leads to your city?"  I don't know why it didn't click. I promise...I actually am pretty smart, though I haven't done much in the way of proving it hahaha.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2008, 5:17pm by onlyme722 » |
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