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Topic: Nothingness (Read 7168 times) |
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sofeffi
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Does nothing exist?
nothing, as far as I can tell, is the absence of something. Therefore, as only things can exist, nothing cannot
however:
dark is the absence of light
quiet is the absence of sound
dark and quiet exist. Following simple logic, so should nothing.
but if nothing doesn't exist, then neither can dark or quiet.
dark is where you see nothing, quiet is where you hear nothing. They can't exist if they are nothing, unless nothing exists.
Does it?
Debate away 
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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #1 on: Nov 7th, 2006, 1:55pm » |
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It kind of depends how you define nothing. If you try to define it as a thing or entity in itself, then it contradicts its own definition. If you simply define it as a lack of material, then its ability to "exist" might be different. To answer the question my own way, I would say a "state of nothingness" can exist.
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"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei
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sofeffi
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #2 on: Nov 7th, 2006, 1:58pm » |
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can something be in a state of nothingness? surely it has to be a thing to be in a state of something, and we all know things exist.
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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #3 on: Nov 7th, 2006, 2:00pm » |
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By definition "something" can't be in a state of nothingness. An area can be empty of any matter, so that area could "contain nothing." The difficulty with this is that it sounds like "nothing" is being treated like an actual item, so I find it easier to refer to that area being in a state of nothingness, rather than saying it contains nothing. It's more of a language and sentence construction problem than anything.
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"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei
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Sameer
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #4 on: Nov 7th, 2006, 2:21pm » |
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The problem is the language you are using to describe "nothing" ... it is the limitation of the language that causes these contradictions...
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"Obvious" is the most dangerous word in mathematics.
--Bell, Eric Temple
Proof is an idol before which the mathematician tortures himself.
Sir Arthur Eddington, quoted in Bridges to Infinity
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towr
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #5 on: Nov 7th, 2006, 2:44pm » |
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'nothing' can exist in the sense that all things may be absent from a place.
It would be very problematic to assume the opposite and have a world view consistent with perceived reality. I think it was Parmenides that went down that road and ended up concluding reality was one complete homogenous unchanging undividable thing. Which of course is contradicted even by him thinking that, since that is change.
In mathematics it is much easier. There it just boils down to 'can you have an empty set' or 'is zero a number'. And of course you can and it is. In fact it is rather fundamental.
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Icarus
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #6 on: Nov 7th, 2006, 3:28pm » |
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This is nothing other than semantics. 
Just like "If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Most arguments on that one boil down to how you define "sound". The arguments here depend on how you define "nothing".
Therefore this a question about the meaning of a concept, and not some philosophical issue.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 7th, 2006, 3:28pm by Icarus » |
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towr
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #7 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 12:43am » |
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on Nov 7th, 2006, 3:28pm, Icarus wrote:| Therefore this a question about the meaning of a concept, and not some philosophical issue. |
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But the meaning of concepts is a philosophical issue. You have to know what you're talking about before you can sensibly talk about it.
Besides, as I suggested, it was a big philosophical issue for the ancient greeks as well.
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Grimbal
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #8 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 12:56am » |
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Does nothingness exist?
We need someone who understands nothing.
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sofeffi
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #9 on: Nov 8th, 2006, 6:29am » |
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Dark is the absence of light, quiet is the absence of sound.
Is bad the absence of good?
How far could you go with this:
Is left the absence of right? 
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revenge
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #11 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 6:34am » |
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on Nov 8th, 2006, 6:29am, sofeffi wrote:| Dark is the absence of light, quiet is the absence of sound. |
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I think it is a matter of interpretation-dark is nothing because it is absence of 'something', light in this case. Can we equally say that light is nothing because it is absence of 'darkness'? It is a relative concept and depends on how you visualize different states of being. Do we have eggs first, or chicken? Besides, emptiness and nothingless do not necessarily mean the same...
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rmsgrey
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #12 on: Nov 14th, 2006, 8:30am » |
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on Nov 14th, 2006, 6:34am, revenge wrote:
I think it is a matter of interpretation-dark is nothing because it is absence of 'something', light in this case. Can we equally say that light is nothing because it is absence of 'darkness'? It is a relative concept and depends on how you visualize different states of being. Do we have eggs first, or chicken? Besides, emptiness and nothingless do not necessarily mean the same...
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If you know nothing more about light and darkness than that the two can't co-exist, then you can argue either way. On the other hand, a simple experiment with a light source and any opaque object produces results that are very hard to explain in terms of light being the absence of dark, and very easy to explain in terms of darkness being the absence of light...
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Three Hands
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #13 on: Nov 23rd, 2006, 3:16am » |
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I would suggest that a concept of nothing is a very useful concept - given we can conceive of things not existing, conceiving of there being no things in existence is just another step along this route. To say that "nothing" exists, however, seems more awkward, as sofeffi outlines.
Hence, I would suggest that the concept of nothing can, and does, exist. However, to say nothing exists, well, not even the solipsists or Descartes went that far...
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towr
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #14 on: Nov 23rd, 2006, 3:48am » |
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on Nov 23rd, 2006, 3:16am, Three Hands wrote:| However, to say nothing exists, well, not even the solipsists or Descartes went that far... |
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I don't see why it should be problematic to say that nothing exists everywhere that anything does not exist.
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Three Hands
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #15 on: Nov 23rd, 2006, 4:47am » |
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True, but I decided to go a little more literal 
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srn437
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the dark lord rises again....
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #16 on: Sep 1st, 2007, 2:52pm » |
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Nothing does exist. Especially in space, where there isn't any air, sound(which travels through air), or gravity.
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Grimbal
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #17 on: Sep 1st, 2007, 3:00pm » |
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But if it is nothing, does it really exist?
And by the way, what can be less than nothing?
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| « Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2007, 3:01pm by Grimbal » |
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mikedagr8
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #18 on: Sep 1st, 2007, 4:19pm » |
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Debt owed to the bank. E.g. you have less than nothing in your bank account.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2007, 4:19pm by mikedagr8 » |
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srn437
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the dark lord rises again....
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #19 on: Sep 2nd, 2007, 9:45am » |
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What about complex amounts of something. Obviously having 1 apple means you have one, having none means you don't have any, and having -1 means you owe one. But what if you have i.
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SMQ
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #20 on: Sep 2nd, 2007, 2:05pm » |
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on Sep 2nd, 2007, 9:45am, srn347 wrote:
Well clearly, in that case, you have one imaginary apple. And If you have 3-2.5i apples you have three real apples but owe two-and-a-half imaginary apples. 
--SMQ
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--SMQ
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mikedagr8
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #21 on: Sep 2nd, 2007, 2:43pm » |
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on Sep 2nd, 2007, 9:45am, srn347 wrote:| What about complex amounts of something. Obviously having 1 apple means you have one, having none means you don't have any, and having -1 means you owe one. But what if you have i. |
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Good call SMQ, when I read that though, I see that I really would be in debt, I don't want a 13 year old, who argues and causes problems wherever he shall go. No thanks. I mean when you say 'i' you mean you. I do that almost every sentemce in this post.
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"It's not that I'm correct, it's that you're just not correct, and so; I am right." - M.P.E.
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srn437
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the dark lord rises again....
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #22 on: Sep 2nd, 2007, 3:30pm » |
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When it is lower case, it is sqrt(-1). When it is capital, it is me. Anyway, nothing does exist.
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CHIMELA
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #23 on: Dec 1st, 2007, 7:12pm » |
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Well, I would concur that it depends on how one defines "nothingness". I would define it as the absence of "something", so it exists as an absence, not something that exists on its own. Those who've posted beforehand have already touched upon the relations between light and dark. Dark is simply the absence of light. Nothing is the absence of something.
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rmsgrey
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Re: Nothingness
« Reply #24 on: Dec 2nd, 2007, 6:34am » |
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on Dec 1st, 2007, 7:12pm, CHIMELA wrote:| Nothing is the absence of something. |
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I'd have said "Nothing is the absence of everything"
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