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Topic: Forcefield Detainment (Read 19228 times) |
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dbaker84
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #25 on: Feb 23rd, 2006, 2:53am » |
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If we assume two conditions:
(1) The guard monitors the prisoners 24/7 and can hear what they are saying to each other, and can order them to do whatever he desires.
(2) The guard knows that they will try to escape and needs to thwart this plan.
There is a relatively simple solution. First, the guard should order the prisoners not to communicate or else they will be shot/punished/whatever. The guard can then call each prisoner to his observation point individually and talk to them for a short time about any random subject, it doesn't matter. Shortly after, he will call them each back individually again and tell them that another prisoner ratted the subject prisoner out as ring-leader of the escape, and therefore he will be shot first when they try to escape. He can also tell them that if they try any communication with any other prisoners "to change the escape plan" (to keep them from reconciling their talks with the guard), they will also be shot. Now every prisoner will think that they have been ratted and tagged as the mastermind of the escape, and will be shot first if they attempt to escape or even talk to the other prisoners. Because they have a perceived 0% chance of escape, each will fail to try and escape when the field opens.
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moooo
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #26 on: Mar 28th, 2006, 4:16am » |
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I think there is a solution to the original problem and that it isn't flawed nor does it need any additional assumptions about their sumo skills. It was mentioned before by "The Knife". The guard threatens to shoot the technician if any of the prisoners dares to move. If the technician is shot, there is no chance of any of the prisoners escaping, so none of them is going to attempt to escape.
on Apr 10th, 2005, 10:04am, rmsgrey wrote:
So what happens if the technician gets shot while the forcefield is open? Who re-establishes the containment field? |
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The guard shouldn't shoot the technician if the forcefield is down. This solution assumes that none of the prisoners is located close enough to the edge of the forcefield that it would take them less than 1 second to run out of it. That takes care of the possibility that the prisoners make their escape as soon as the technician shuts off the forcefield.
...or maybe there is something I've missed completely after reading the previous posts.
btw this is an awesome forum. Wish I had discovered it earlier!
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Icarus
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #27 on: Mar 28th, 2006, 4:03pm » |
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The flaw in that is that there must be some reason for the technician to need to shut off the field in the first place. That reason is not going to go away just because you shot him. Possibly, the field will enventually fail if the tech is not allowed to fix the problem.
In this case, it is to the prisoners' advantage to crowd the field. If you follow through with your threat, or the tech, realizing that you are psycho, flees for his life, then the field will eventually fail on its own, and everyone escapes. If you don't follow through, then they can escape while it is down.
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flamingdragon
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #28 on: Nov 19th, 2006, 5:21pm » |
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I disagree, the only way to be 100% certain that no one will escape is to shoot the technician. The ringleader/tallest/number solutions will not work b/c one might sacrifice himself for the others to escape. And even if he did say he'd shoot them first, there's still a probability of escape, such as the guard decides not to shoot them for some reason, such as he's defecting or something, furthermore they probably don't know he never misses or wont believe him if he says that. Shooting the technician is the only way to gurantee the prisoners dont have a probability of escaping and guranteeing u can detain them all.
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towr
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #29 on: Nov 20th, 2006, 12:59am » |
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on Nov 19th, 2006, 5:21pm, flamingdragon wrote:| The ringleader/tallest/number solutions will not work b/c one might sacrifice himself for the others to escape. |
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Doesn't the riddle explicitly exclude this?
Quote:| Shooting the technician is the only way to gurantee the prisoners dont have a probability of escaping and guranteeing u can detain them all. |
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I disagree, in his dying breath and with spite on his mind the technician would remove the forcefield. Not to mention thta without repair it would eventually fail on it's own.
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flamingdragon
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #30 on: Nov 20th, 2006, 8:22pm » |
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Ok, they maybe they wont sacrifice themselves, but still they would think there is some probability of escape since they dont know he has 100% aim and him not shooting them for some reason also works.
If the guard never misses, he could shoot the technician in the head and he wouldnt have a dying breath. 
And u dont know why the technician is updating the forcefield, it could just be that hes upgrading it while it doesn't need to be. And i'm sure the riddle doesn't mean to keep them secure indefinately, just for the moment. If it meant indefinately then it would be impossible as the forcefield would eventually run out of power or the prisoners and the guard would eventually die.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 20th, 2006, 8:34pm by flamingdragon » |
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towr
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #31 on: Nov 21st, 2006, 1:02am » |
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I don't think the forcefield is battery operated, it's probably on a powergrid with a few backup generator. Guards and prisoners inevitably change.
But no one will service the forefield because of the risk of being shot by the guard, so in the end it will fail. 
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flamingdragon
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #32 on: Nov 21st, 2006, 11:49am » |
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They would probably die b4 the forcefield failed, and their empire or whatever would fall eventually when their sun goes supernova, or some other disaster. They could not be detained forever.
That has to be the correct answer, its the ONLY way to gurantee none will escape.
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towr
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #33 on: Nov 21st, 2006, 12:39pm » |
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on Nov 21st, 2006, 11:49am, flamingdragon wrote:| That has to be the correct answer, its the ONLY way to gurantee none will escape. |
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Well, you could drug their food, water, air even.
Or kill them with radiation or something (such that you don't have to drop the forecfield to do it); being dead usually stops people running off (except when they turn into zombies).
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flamingdragon
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #34 on: Nov 21st, 2006, 2:06pm » |
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I think keeping them detained might mean keeping them alive as well, but I could be wrong about that.
There probably isn't enough time to do any of that b4 the forcefield goes down though.
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Icarus
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #35 on: Nov 21st, 2006, 7:21pm » |
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on Nov 21st, 2006, 11:49am, flamingdragon wrote:| That has to be the correct answer, its the ONLY way to gurantee none will escape. |
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The intent of this riddle is that the guard can and will - with complete certainty - kill whichever one prisoner he chooses. The trick to the riddle is the inductive effect that allows you to conclude none of the prisoners will move as each knows that the ones who would be shot before him will not move; so if he moves, he will be shot.
The inductive solution is the intended one for the riddle.
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flamingdragon
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #36 on: Nov 25th, 2006, 6:34pm » |
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on Nov 19th, 2006, 5:21pm, flamingdragon wrote:
Even if he did say he'd shoot them first, there's still a probability of escape, such as they think the guard could decide not to shoot them for some reason, such as he's defecting or something, furthermore they probably don't know he never misses or wont believe him if he says that. |
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Hmm, somehow I don't see this being disproven...
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rmsgrey
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #37 on: Nov 26th, 2006, 9:43am » |
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on Nov 25th, 2006, 6:34pm, flamingdragon wrote:
Hmm, somehow I don't see this being disproven... |
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Well, if you want to discuss low probability events, its possible that the prisoners would all spontaneously fall through the back walls of the cells and escape that way (macroscopic quantum tunneling's incredibly low probability but still (I believe) theoretically possible...)
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flamingdragon
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #38 on: Nov 26th, 2006, 1:58pm » |
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LOL, very well then. They would try it and fail and still all be detained.
However it says on ANY chance of escape. It is most likely the guard is not defecting, however they would still take it as it is possible, one would then most likely get shot and the others would escape, same thing with them not believing he has perfect aim.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 26th, 2006, 2:00pm by flamingdragon » |
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Zatanna
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #39 on: Aug 15th, 2007, 3:26pm » |
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I agree with towr. There's not enough time for a mob to escape; the threat of a re-activated force-field would insure that EVERYONE would want to be the first out, causing a jam at the exit. Appointing a "trustee" or two could stop the escape attempt cold, it's worked for Southern chaingangs for decades.
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srn437
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #40 on: Aug 26th, 2007, 9:32pm » |
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Either shoot the technician or threaten to shoot the first to move at all.
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mikedagr8
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #41 on: Aug 26th, 2007, 9:56pm » |
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Get n guards for n prisoners each with n bullets who have perfect marksmanship. Now the forcefield can be down forever.
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srn437
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #42 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 10:45am » |
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You can't do that. How about numbering them and threatening to shoot the highest number that tries escaping(gets a certain distance of the forcefield).
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| « Last Edit: Aug 28th, 2007, 9:32pm by srn437 » |
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mikedagr8
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #43 on: Aug 27th, 2007, 2:11pm » |
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Tucan_Sam
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Re: Forcefield Detainment
« Reply #44 on: Feb 7th, 2009, 4:57pm » |
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how about you offer a reward to the strongest prisoner if he breaks the legs of all the other prisoners. If he does not complete this mission. You offer the next strongest prisoner a reward if he finishes the mission... so on and so on until only one prisoner remains without broken legs. You have him drag all the others to the middle of the force field. When the force field is lowered there is only one person who can escape and that person is aware he will be shot and wont attempt to escape.
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