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Topic: Chess Study I & II (Read 3539 times) |
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Garzahd
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Chess Study I & II
« on: Oct 21st, 2002, 5:35pm » |
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Yay, new problems. I haven't tried some chess problems in awhile, and I probably suck at them, but I'll give them a shot.
The first one seems impossible. Either you move the pawn, and black Kb7 makes the pawn die, or you move the king, and black Kb6 makes the pawn die. In either case, he'll have a chance to nab your pawn in one further move. Then you have the option of chasing down the black pawn, in which case you can't reach it before it's Q'd, or you run off to valiantly rescue your doomed white pawn, which gives black huge amounts of time to eat your pawn and start moving his.
If you're fortunate enough to have the board upside down, you at least have play for a draw 
For the second one, G8 is the key square; if the BK gets there you're hosed because your king will have no way to extract him. Therefore you have to run there pronto. Kh6 is the necessary first move. If black moves Kf7 or Kf8, then WKh7 guards G8 adequately; if black starts moving the pawn, then race; you're still one move ahead and you'll check him when the pawn arrives; giving you time for Qg8-d5 to munch any further notions of black's pawn. If black interrupts the pawn race for Kf7 or Kf8, you go WKh7 as before, and you haven't lost a turn in the pawn race.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2003, 8:05pm by Icarus » |
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Chronos
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Re: New: Chess Study I & II
« Reply #1 on: Oct 21st, 2002, 9:49pm » |
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There's only one vaguely interesting answer I can think of for the first one: Yes, White can win. But only if Black lets him. Otherwise, it's as you say: White pawn can't escape Black king. At best, Pawn can reach the backrank and queen, but Black, if he's paying attention, will be right there to capture her.
I note that neither puzzle specifies which direction White is moving. Is it to be assumed to be up the board?
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TimMann
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Re: New: Chess Study I & II
« Reply #3 on: Oct 22nd, 2002, 2:35am » |
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Something is obviously wrong with that first problem, because as folks have noted, it's trivial to show that White can't force a win. The problem should be: "Can White draw?"
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| « Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2002, 2:42am by TimMann » |
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wowbagger
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Re: New: Chess Study I & II
« Reply #4 on: Oct 22nd, 2002, 9:59am » |
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on Oct 22nd, 2002, 2:35am, TimMann wrote:| The [first] problem should be: "Can White draw?" |
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You're right, that's the original (and not so trivial) problem. Such endgame studies - of which Reti composed some really instructive ones - can really help in playing chess. Believe me, I speak from my own experience.
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icon
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Re: New: Chess Study I & II
« Reply #5 on: Oct 24th, 2002, 6:17am » |
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hehe
i used to spend 6 solid hours doing chess theory
mostly i started when i was 7 and stopped at 12(family moved etc)
these 2 are very elegant and as someone mention key here isnt to win byt not to lose
white king moves to: g7 this gives him 2 posibilies
1. if black king replies to b6, white king just moves to f6 which gives him position on both.
"now if black pawn moves further down to h4 the white king goes to e5, (if pawn goes to h3 then white king goes to d6 and white pawn gets to queen)"
other way is black king takes on c6 then white king go to g5 and we have a draw
2. if pawn goes to h4, then white king goes to f6(same happens if then king goes to b6) if pawn goes to h3 then king goes to e6,(if black pawn goes to h2 then white move c7, then black king goes to b7, white king goes to d7....)
think thats covers all
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william wu
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Re: New: Chess Study I & II
« Reply #6 on: Oct 27th, 2002, 3:08pm » |
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on Oct 22nd, 2002, 2:35am, TimMann wrote:Something is obviously wrong with that first problem, because as folks have noted, it's trivial to show that White can't force a win. The problem should be: "Can White draw?"
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Sorry about that ... I was copying and pasting the same problem statement from Chess Study II. I have changed it to say "What is optimal play for White?", although that's a little hazy. If anyone has any objections to this sentence, feel free to voice your concerns.
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Chronos
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Re: New: Chess Study I & II
« Reply #7 on: Oct 29th, 2002, 12:20pm » |
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Naw, "optimal play" isn't hazy at all. That means that White's primary goal is to force a win, or if that's impossible, to force a draw. If that's impossible, too, then I suppose that "optimum" is to delay losing, in hopes that black will make a mistake.
In a completely general chess problem, you have to consider the possibility that you can't figure out how to force a win, but can try for a win anyway. Here, though, we're close enough to the end that it's realistic to explore all lines to mate, so that's not an issue. There's also the possibility that more than one move will be equally optimal, but that's OK, white just needs to make one of them.
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ThudnBlunder
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Re: New: Chess Study I & II
« Reply #8 on: May 5th, 2003, 11:13am » |
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Quote:For the second one, G8 is the key square; if the BK gets there you're hosed because your king will have no way to extract him.
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There is no need for White to extract him in order to win.
Quote:| Therefore you have to run there pronto. Kh6 is the necessary first move. If black moves Kf7 or Kf8, then WKh7 guards G8 adequately; |
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After
1. Kh6? Kf7
2. Kh7
Black plays Kf6 threatening to capture the White pawn.
White must then move his King back to h6 to defend it.
Then Black plays back to Kf7 again. No progress. Draw by repetition.
The winning method is to overload the Black King by making a feign for its d-pawn.
Black must defend it, as swapping pawns will allow White to win by queening his a-pawn.
1. Kg5! Kf7
2. Kf5! Ke7 (everything else leads to mate in exactly 19 moves!)
3. Kg6!
If now 3...Ke6 the white pawn will queen with check in a race.
And if 3...Ke7 then 4. Kf6 and Black cannot push its pawn without also supporting it with its King.
Again the White pawn will queen first.
A sample variation:
3........Ke6
4. g5 d5
5. Kh6 d4
6. g6 d3
7. g7 Kf7
8. Kh7 Kf6
9. g8 = Q and White easily captures the Black pawn with his new Queen.
(! means 'good move'; ? means 'bad move'.)
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| « Last Edit: May 23rd, 2004, 3:07pm by ThudnBlunder » |
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THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
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