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        riddles >> what happened >> Casino Bus
        
(Message started by: denis on Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:18am)
Title: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:18am
15 passengers got on an empty bus at the terminal in Newark, NJ for a fun night at the casinos of Atlantic City, NJ. Along the route the bus has stops where it may pick up on drop off passengers and where passengers may pick up a quick refreshment. At the first stop, 10 passengers left the bus but only of these 5 people got back on, the others being too inebriated as to remember when to get back to the bus. No other passengers embarked on the bus at this or other stops along the route since departure from Newark, NJ.

But when the bus arrived in Atlantic City, 15 passengers got off the bus.

What happened?
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Padfoot on Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:51am
This is confusing...

Were 5 babies born then? :-/

Mabye there was a cloning machine on the bus ;D
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:54am
No...
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Padfoot on Feb 3rd, 2007, 3:34pm
20 passangers got on at Newark.  Just becouse it says 15 got on doesn't mean there weren't more.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 3rd, 2007, 3:57pm
Nope... the bus left Newark with 15 passengers.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Padfoot on Feb 3rd, 2007, 4:09pm
Well, those were the only answers that I could come up with so since it is a "what happened" riddle I will ask some questions.

1. Just before the bus stoped for the first stop were there still only 15 passangers?

2. Does the location mater?

3. Did 5 people use some other way of getting into the bus when it was moving?  (such as jumping in through the window)
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Icarus on Feb 3rd, 2007, 4:15pm
Did anyone get on at places other than the stops?
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 3rd, 2007, 4:16pm
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 3rd, 2007, 4:18pm

on 02/03/07 at 16:15:19, Icarus wrote:
Did anyone get on at places other than the stops?


No
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Padfoot on Feb 3rd, 2007, 7:16pm
If the location does play a role in the answer, than what about the time?
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 3rd, 2007, 7:23pm

on 02/03/07 at 19:16:56, Padfoot wrote:
If the location does play a role in the answer, than what about the time?


No
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Locke64 on Feb 3rd, 2007, 7:39pm
10 more people got off before the destination, so by the time the bus got to the destination, 15 people had gotten off.

[e]That's not right though, it would be too easy.  I'm sure that's not what you meant.  You meant that 15 passengers got off at the destination, right?[/e]
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on Feb 3rd, 2007, 7:42pm
Considering where this is taking place, they probably found five dead bodies on the bus.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 3rd, 2007, 8:03pm

on 02/03/07 at 19:39:41, Locke64 wrote:
You meant that 15 passengers got off at the destination, right?[/e]


Yes


on 02/03/07 at 19:42:26, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:
Considering where this is taking place, they probably found five dead bodies on the bus.



nope... 15 live people got on at Newark. 15 live people walked off at destination at Atlantic City. None were carried on or off the bus.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by raven on Feb 3rd, 2007, 8:28pm
A landing party from the Starship Enterprise beamed aboard the bus... ;D


Or better, five space aliens got on somewhere (not people) and turned into people between the first stop and final destination!

8)
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 3rd, 2007, 8:32pm

on 02/03/07 at 20:28:29, raven wrote:
A landing party from the Starship Enterprise beamed aboard the bus... ;D


Or better, five space aliens got on somewhere (not people) and turned into people between the first stop and final destination!

8)


LOL.... That would explain things except for the fact that the intended answer does not involve aliens, time machines or teletransportation....
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by jollytall on Feb 4th, 2007, 12:57am
I guess those five who forgot to get back to the bus at the first stop took a cab, rushed after the bus and got back on it at the next stop.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Padfoot on Feb 4th, 2007, 7:21am

on 02/03/07 at 11:18:50, denis wrote:
No other passengers embarked on the bus at this or other stops along the route since departure from Newark, NJ.

;)
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by jollytall on Feb 4th, 2007, 9:47am
No"OTHER" passengers. It does not say that these passengers did not get back on the bus later.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 10:04am

on 02/04/07 at 09:47:02, jollytall wrote:
No"OTHER" passengers. It does not say that these passengers did not get back on the bus later.


Interesting answer, I would be tempted to award it an alternate if it wern't for the fact that 25 people could get off the bus at Altlantic City without changing other parameters. The riddle would still be consistent.

In this riddle no passengers, original ones or otherwise got on, or back on the bus after the first stop since its departure from Newark.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Icarus on Feb 4th, 2007, 11:40am
Perhaps more than 15 people got on the bus at Newark, but you only bothered to mention the 15?
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Padfoot on Feb 4th, 2007, 11:51am

on 02/03/07 at 15:34:31, Padfoot wrote:
20 passangers got on at Newark.  Just becouse it says 15 got on doesn't mean there weren't more.


Is this what your talking about?
I think denis said that the bus left Newark with 15 passangers though.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 12:12pm

on 02/04/07 at 11:40:07, Icarus wrote:
Perhaps more than 15 people got on the bus at Newark, but you only bothered to mention the 15?



No...Only 15 got on at Newark. No more. The bus left Newark with 15 on board and arrived at the first stop with 15 on board.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Icarus on Feb 4th, 2007, 12:57pm
To summarize:
(1) The bus leaves Newark with exactly 15 passengers.
(2) No one gets off or gets on anywhere before arriving in Atlantic City, except at the first stop.
(3) At the first stop, exactly 10 people get off, and exactly 5 get on.
(4) No one was born on the bus or by other means somehow spontaneously came into being on the bus.
(5) When it arrives at Atlantic City, 15 passengers get off the bus.

Did anyone get on the bus at Atlantic City, then get back off? (Even if so, I wouldn't call them "passengers".)


--------------------
A Biologist, Physicist, and Mathematician were following the bus in their own car, and observed all the goings-on. Upon seeing the 15 passengers get off, the Biologist exclaimed "they procreated!" "No", the Physicist replied, "it must be a measurement error." The mathematician responded "you know, if 5 more people will get on the bus, it will be empty."
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 1:27pm

on 02/04/07 at 12:57:34, Icarus wrote:
To summarize:

Did anyone get on the bus at Atlantic City, then get back off? (Even if so, I wouldn't call them "passengers".)


No
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 1:29pm

on 02/04/07 at 12:57:34, Icarus wrote:
To summarize:
(1) The bus leaves Newark with exactly 15 passengers.
(2) No one gets off or gets on anywhere before arriving in Atlantic City, except at the first stop.
(3) At the first stop, exactly 10 people get off, and exactly 5 get on.
(4) No one was born on the bus or by other means somehow spontaneously came into being on the bus.
(5) When it arrives at Atlantic City, 15 passengers get off the bus.


Your summary is almost entirely correct exept that one of the points makes an assumption not mentionned in the riddle and is therefore incorrect.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Icarus on Feb 4th, 2007, 2:51pm
(1) The bus leaves Newark with exactly 15 passengers.


on 02/04/07 at 12:12:09, denis wrote:
The bus left Newark with 15 on board and arrived at the first stop with 15 on board.


(2) No one gets off or gets on anywhere before arriving in Atlantic City, except at the first stop.


on 02/04/07 at 12:12:09, denis wrote:
...arrived at the first stop with 15 on board.

on 02/04/07 at 10:04:45, denis wrote:
In this riddle no passengers, original ones or otherwise got on, or back on the bus after the first stop since its departure from Newark.


(3) At the first stop, exactly 10 people get off, and exactly 5 get on.


on 02/03/07 at 11:18:50, denis wrote:
At the first stop, 10 passengers left the bus but only of these 5 people got back on...No other passengers embarked on the bus at this or other stops


(4) No one was born on the bus or by other means somehow spontaneously came into being on the bus.


on 02/03/07 at 11:51:49, Padfoot wrote:
Were 5 babies born then? :-/

Mabye there was a cloning machine on the bus ;D


on 02/03/07 at 11:54:52, denis wrote:
No...


on 02/03/07 at 16:15:19, Icarus wrote:
Did anyone get on at places other than the stops?


on 02/03/07 at 16:18:28, denis wrote:
No


on 02/03/07 at 20:32:19, denis wrote:
That would explain things except for the fact that the intended answer does not involve aliens, time machines or teletransportation....


(5) When it arrives at Atlantic City, 15 passengers get off the bus.


on 02/03/07 at 11:18:50, denis wrote:
when the bus arrived in Atlantic City, 15 passengers got off the bus.


-------------------------
Admittedly, my quotes for (2) allow more people to get off, but that would just make count at Atlantic City even harder to justify. (4) might allow some other means of passenger creation than the ones mentioned, but that is getting ridiculous.

Perhaps "passengers" does not mean "people" to you? Did the passengers make puppets of some sort that are now getting counted as passengers?
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Padfoot on Feb 4th, 2007, 2:59pm
Also, we have to incorporate the location into the problem.  However, I don't see a solution that involves New Jersey, casinos, or the Atlantic Ocean or anything else. ???
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 3:11pm

on 02/04/07 at 12:57:34, Icarus wrote:
To summarize:
(2) No one gets off or gets on anywhere before arriving in Atlantic City, except at the first stop.


How did you arrive at this conclusion? Nowhere in the riddle or my other comments is mentionned that no one gets OFF after the first stop. Only that no one gets ON the bus after the first stop since its departure from Newark.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 3:19pm

on 02/04/07 at 14:59:48, Padfoot wrote:
Also, we have to incorporate the location into the problem.  However, I don't see a solution that involves New Jersey, casinos, or the Atlantic Ocean or anything else. ???



The riddle is somewhat location dependant if we use it in a real context rather than in a ficticious setting. Seing as I wanted a realistic setting, I made sure this riddle works for the Newark to Atlantic City bus routes and it also works on many other bus routes but not all bus routes will work.

Having said all of this, I will now stick to yes and no answers.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Icarus on Feb 4th, 2007, 3:19pm

on 02/04/07 at 15:11:00, denis wrote:
How did you arrive at this conclusion? Nowhere in the riddle or my other comments is mentionned that no one gets OFF after the first stop. Only that no one gets ON the bus after the first stop since its departure from Newark.



on 02/04/07 at 14:51:02, Icarus wrote:
Admittedly, my quotes for (2) allow more people to get off, but that would just make count at Atlantic City even harder to justify.


So. You start with 15, lose 5, then lose some more, and this somehow gets you back to 15 at the end??
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 3:23pm
yes
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 3:28pm

on 02/04/07 at 14:51:02, Icarus wrote:
Perhaps "passengers" does not mean "people" to you? Did the passengers make puppets of some sort that are now getting counted as passengers?


No.  passengers mean real people.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Icarus on Feb 4th, 2007, 3:29pm
Is the first stop Atlantic City?
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 3:31pm

on 02/04/07 at 15:29:02, Icarus wrote:
Is the first stop Atlantic City?


No, recall I mentionned that 25 could get off at Atlantic City while keeping other parameters equal and the riddle would still be consistent.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Icarus on Feb 4th, 2007, 5:38pm
You are interpreting "25" or "15" by some other means than normal decimal numbers, maybe?

The bus starts empty. Only 15 people got on at the start, 5 of those left permanently at stop 1. No one else ever got on the bus (including by coming into being on the bus). Yet 15 (or 25) people got off at Atlantic City. You've agreed to all of this.

At this point, I can only think that this is a linguistic puzzle, not a "what happened" one.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 7:43pm

on 02/04/07 at 17:38:22, Icarus wrote:
You are interpreting "25" or "15" by some other means than normal decimal numbers, maybe?

The bus starts empty. Only 15 people got on at the start, 5 of those left permanently at stop 1. No one else ever got on the bus (including by coming into being on the bus). Yet 15 (or 25) people got off at Atlantic City. You've agreed to all of this.

At this point, I can only think that this is a linguistic puzzle, not a "what happened" one.


Well from where I stand it seems to me more of a "what happened" because something does happen to explain the  difference at Atlantic City.

The numbers are regular decimal numbers and there is no real significance to 15 and 25. Could of picked different numbers at ATlantic City (26, 27, 38, 29, 20 etc) and it would work as well.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 7:53pm
Since Icarus et all seems stuck, it means time for a hint:

[hide]the bus company used by our fun loving casino players was Greyhound[/hide]
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on Feb 4th, 2007, 8:11pm
This might depend on [hide]your definition of embark, but did some passengers transfer?[/hide]
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 8:26pm
WTF: Nice guess but [hide]Passengers transfering from other busses to the one that left Newark would violate the constraint that "no other passengers embarked on the bus at the first or subsequent stop since departure from Newark". So something else happened.[/hide]
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 4th, 2007, 9:37pm

on 02/04/07 at 12:57:34, Icarus wrote:
--------------------
A Biologist, Physicist, and Mathematician were following the bus in their own car, and observed all the goings-on. Upon seeing the 15 passengers get off, the Biologist exclaimed "they procreated!" "No", the Physicist replied, "it must be a measurement error." The mathematician responded "you know, if 5 more people will get on the bus, it will be empty."


Reminds me of the following one:

An astronomer, a physicist and a mathematician were holidaying in Scotland. Glancing from a train window, they observed a black sheep in the middle of a field. "How interesting" observed the astronomer, "all Scottish sheep are black!". To which the physicist reponded, "No, no! Some Scottish sheep are Black". The mathematician gazed heaveneward in supplication and then intoned, "In Scottland, there exists at least one field, containing at least one sheep, at least one side of which is black"
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by towr on Feb 5th, 2007, 1:57am
Does the bus have a revolving door policy?
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Grimbal on Feb 5th, 2007, 2:39am
"when the bus arrived in Atlantic City" happened before the 15 passengers embarked in Newark.  Maybe it is not even the same "Atlantic City" as the "Atlantic City, NJ", the intended destination of the 15 people from Newark.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 7:07am

on 02/05/07 at 02:39:01, Grimbal wrote:
"when the bus arrived in Atlantic City" happened before the 15 passengers embarked in Newark.  Maybe it is not even the same "Atlantic City" as the "Atlantic City, NJ", the intended destination of the 15 people from Newark.


If there is another Atlantic City on Greyhound's published route from Newark to Atlantic City, NJ I would be very surprised but I would nonetheless  accept it as an alternate solution.

There is in  fact a version of the puzzle using diffrent locales where the destination city and intermediate city have the same name and your solution would be the correct one but this riddle is different.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 7:07am

on 02/05/07 at 01:57:31, towr wrote:
Does the bus have a revolving door policy?



Not sure what you mean here.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 7:09am
At this point WTF is the closest in terms of the intended answer.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by SMQ on Feb 5th, 2007, 7:19am
Did any [hide]people other than passengers[/hide] board the bus at any point along its route? If so, did their [hide]status change to passengers[/hide] at some point before or upon arrival in Atlantic City?

--SMQ
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 7:25am
If you're thinking did any bus drivers get on (and not count as passengers) and then come off as passengers, then no not the correct answer.  
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 7:28am
Hint 2: [hide]the published schedules for the Newark-Atlantic City route are available on Greyhound's web site. This riddle uses one of the the real published bus routes used by Greyhound[/hide]
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on Feb 5th, 2007, 7:37am
Transfers in Mt. Laurel and Philadelphia...   ???
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 7:50am
So WTF, you see what is happenning here? You're red hot now. I stared at the schedule for almost a day before everything clicked.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by towr on Feb 5th, 2007, 7:54am

on 02/05/07 at 07:07:46, denis wrote:
Not sure what you mean here.
The same people going in and out multiple times.
Around here busses have doors at multiple points, so you could leave through one, get in through the other, leave the bus again, etc.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 7:57am

on 02/05/07 at 07:54:09, towr wrote:
The same people going in and out multiple times.
Around here busses have doors at multiple points, so you could leave through one, get in through the other, leave the bus again, etc.



OK I see. No..This does not involve revolving doors. Only one door is at the front.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on Feb 5th, 2007, 8:12am
Oh!  I get it!  If you want me to post it I will but I assure you I have the answer.  

That's really odd, isn't it?
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 8:19am
Go ahead and post it..You deserve the kudos.. (you may also have an alternate solution that I didn't think of).
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on Feb 5th, 2007, 8:47am
Well, I'll take a stab at two different answers, then.  [hide]They passed through the same station twice, once on their way West, once as they went to the East.  As a possible alternate, the same passengers could have probably transferred to a different bus and caught the original bus at a different station.[/hide]  I'm pretty sure the first one is the intended.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 9:01am

on 02/05/07 at 08:47:38, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:
Well, I'll take a stab at two different answers, then.  [hide]They passed through the same station twice, once on their way West, once as they went to the East.  As a possible alternate, the same passengers could have probably transferred to a different bus and caught the original bus at a different station.[/hide]  I'm pretty sure the first one is the intended.


I like your second answer better (its the intended one) but with a bit of simplification.... [hide]Is there any reason why they need to get back on the original bus? Where in the riddle does it say that the same bus arrived at Atlantic City as the bus that left Newark? Its an assumption we all make which makes the solution more difficult to get. In fact, I don't believe that ANY bus leaving Newark actually arrive at Atlantic City according to the schedules. All routes that I checked have a compulsary transfer. The simple compulsary transfer scenario from the original bus onto a second bus where there are already passengers would be simpler and works just as well. (note:  Some of the routes only have one transfer and is the intended solution).

BTW you may wonder why I didn't accept your transfer suggestion a few posts back. It seemed to me you were transfering passengers from other busses to the original one. It was important to understand the transfer went the other way [/hide]
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Grimbal on Feb 5th, 2007, 9:36am

on 02/05/07 at 02:39:01, Grimbal wrote:
"when the bus arrived in Atlantic City" happened before the 15 passengers embarked in Newark.  Maybe it is not even the same "Atlantic City" as the "Atlantic City, NJ", the intended destination of the 15 people from Newark.


on 02/05/07 at 07:07:20, denis wrote:
If there is another Atlantic City on Greyhound's published route from Newark to Atlantic City, NJ I would be very surprised but I would nonetheless  accept it as an alternate solution.

I was thinking of the following sequence of events:
- 15 passengers get down from the bus at Atlantic City
- The bus arrives empty at Newark and 15 passengers embark
- A stop somewhere, 10 passenger leave, 5 get back,
- whatever happens to the bus then is not part of the story

This seems to match your account of events.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on Feb 5th, 2007, 9:42am

on 02/05/07 at 09:01:36, denis wrote:
[hide]Is there any reason why they need to get back on the original bus? Where in the riddle does it say that the same bus arrived at Atlantic City as the bus that left Newark? Its an assumption we all make which makes the solution more difficult to get.[/hide]


For me it was the fact that other than the first line, which introduces an empty bus, in every other reference to a bus you use "the bus" and not "a bus."  I'm not saying you were wrong for doing this, but that is why I made the assumption that there was only one bus.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 10:08am

on 02/05/07 at 09:36:09, Grimbal wrote:
I was thinking of the following sequence of events:
- 15 passengers get down from the bus at Atlantic City
- The bus arrives empty at Newark and 15 passengers embark
- A stop somewhere, 10 passenger leave, 5 get back,
- whatever happens to the bus then is not part of the story

This seems to match your account of events.


Yes your description does look like an alternate. You're basically opening up the timelime to have the bus do things in a sequence that would make sense. I'm trying to decide wether to accept it given the fact that [hide]the bus arriving in Atlantic City is different from the bus leaving Newark according to Greyhound schedule. To be fair, you are not bound by their schedule but only the clues given  by the riddle[/hide] so I will accept it as alternate....
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 10:17am

on 02/05/07 at 09:42:48, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:
For me it was the fact that other than the first line, which introduces an empty bus, in every other reference to a bus you use "the bus" and not "a bus."  I'm not saying you were wrong for doing this, but that is why I made the assumption that there was only one bus.


In my way of thinking when your on a bus route, you simply refer to the bus you're on as "the" bus and not "a" bus. Yes I suppose now I could of used "their bus" on the last line and this would have made it less deceptive. I hope you all enjoyed the riddle nothwitstanding this small hiccup.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by towr on Feb 5th, 2007, 10:32am
For a transfer to happen, I would assume they have to disembark and reembark, and it's clearly stated no such thing occurs.
It'd work for trains though, as you can just join two trains together.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 10:39am
The riddle says "No other passengers embarked on the bus at this or other stops along the route since departure from Newark, NJ." The first bus is the one that had departed from Newark, so we are referring to the first bus here. Since the second bus did not have a departure from Newark, embarkation to the second bus is allowed. Also, disembarkation from the first bus is allowed in the riddle.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by jollytall on Feb 5th, 2007, 11:33am
I thought of the physical coupling of a second coach (trailer) to the original bus along the route (like a train). That would solve the physical bus solution, but it was excluded by the comment "one door only". So I did not even post it.

But even with the official solution I have a problem.
I accept the fact that we are talking of a "virtual" bus (THE bus), that is practically a bus-line. But then I have the question. Is the bus(line) that arrives to AC is the same as the one departs from Newark.
If yes, then the passengers arriving on the other physical bus, also come on a different bus(line), so they DO embark this bus(line) even without getting down from their physical bus.
If not (either the merged part inherites the code of the other branch, or it gets a totally new number), then the first bus(line) actually never arrives to AC, so they cannot get off it at all there, i.e. the riddle is incorrect.
A third solution is that it becomes a code-sharing leg of the journey, sort of both virtual buses arriving to AC. But since we are talking of bus(lines) not physical buses, actually the two group of passengers get down from two bus(line)s even if they travelled on one physical bus. So from "OUR" bus only 10 people get down.
The only case that I can imagine and accept if the two bus(line)s have exactly the same number/code. Well, if it is so, then it can be very confusing over there.

I still like my "catching up" version most, even in the form of the bus making a loop and stopping at the same stop again picking up the same passangers, not others. (Yes it does not work with 25.)

Yes, I know: only the grape is sour.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 12:11pm

on 02/05/07 at 11:33:01, jollytall wrote:
I thought of the physical coupling of a second coach (trailer) to the original bus along the route (like a train). That would solve the physical bus solution, but it was excluded by the comment "one door only". So I did not even post it.

But even with the official solution I have a problem.
I accept the fact that we are talking of a "virtual" bus (THE bus), that is practically a bus-line. But then I have the question. Is the bus(line) that arrives to AC is the same as the one departs from Newark.
If yes, then the passengers arriving on the other physical bus, also come on a different bus(line), so they DO embark this bus(line) even without getting down from their physical bus.
If not (either the merged part inherites the code of the other branch, or it gets a totally new number), then the first bus(line) actually never arrives to AC, so they cannot get off it at all there, i.e. the riddle is incorrect.
A third solution is that it becomes a code-sharing leg of the journey, sort of both virtual buses arriving to AC. But since we are talking of bus(lines) not physical buses, actually the two group of passengers get down from two bus(line)s even if they travelled on one physical bus. So from "OUR" bus only 10 people get down.
The only case that I can imagine and accept if the two bus(line)s have exactly the same number/code. Well, if it is so, then it can be very confusing over there.

I still like my "catching up" version most, even in the form of the bus making a loop and stopping at the same stop again picking up the same passangers, not others. (Yes it does not work with 25.)

Yes, I know: only the grape is sour.


Jollytall,

You are correct in that in a virtual bus line the first bus line (code) does not get to the destination. A different line number is served by the second bus.

The Newark to Atlantic City routes is served by two different bus routes (or codes as you put it).

But note on the bus ticket, there is a departure city with a bus code, a transfer city with a new bus code and a destination city.  Since you can print a bus ticket with Newark as departure, and Atlantic City as destination, you can certainly get off Atlantic City on this virtual bus from my point of view.

However, I do admit that my initial intention was to just talk about physical busses and I should have changed the last line to reflect that ("their bus" instead of "the" bus)  to emphasise physical busses rather than virtual bus.  

I appreciate your comments on how I could have handled the riddle differently as I am still in the learning process.

And your solution is not all that bad to tell you the truth. I guess sometimes the guy who writes the riddle will accept some solution over others based on certain criteria. My criteria was what really happens on the Newark to AC bus route based on Greyhound's published shedules. It was a "real world" riddle. I trew in 15 at destination and at departure in order to put riddlers on a false trail  (and you bit). So I considered answers that solely  concentrated on the equal numbers at destination and departure as being off the trail from before the start of the riddle (perhaps unfairly).


Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by C.S.I. on Feb 5th, 2007, 1:17pm
denis, on behalf of jollytall, please don't get his name wrong..  ;D
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by denis on Feb 5th, 2007, 1:31pm
My bad.....C.S.I.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Error corrected.

8)
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by jollytall on Feb 5th, 2007, 11:14pm
Oh, I missed that. What was it?

Jollytail? I like that. I do my best to keep it like that (my tail to be happy) :-) :-) :-)

Something else? Let me know.
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by UNKNOWN on Feb 6th, 2007, 6:53pm
i thought differently the intended one puzzled me but [hide]Of the ten passengers that got off, only 5 of them got on... that doesnt regard new passengers, but i guess i was wrong or misunderstood a few posts[/hide]
Title: Re: Casino Bus
Post by Icarus on Feb 6th, 2007, 6:55pm

on 02/05/07 at 10:17:09, denis wrote:
In my way of thinking when your on a bus route, you simply refer to the bus you're on as "the" bus and not "a" bus. Yes I suppose now I could of used "their bus" on the last line and this would have made it less deceptive. I hope you all enjoyed the riddle nothwitstanding this small hiccup.


In my opinion, you should of gone with "their bus" for the final line. By saying "the bus", you were not just being a little deceptive, but downright lying (not intentionally, I know). But hindsight is 20/20. :-/

Thanks for the riddle.


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