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Topic: John Titor (Read 22260 times) |
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BNC
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #50 on: Aug 10th, 2004, 12:46am » |
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on Aug 9th, 2004, 11:37pm, marycast wrote:IMPORTANT NEWSFLASH from the International Alien Research Group.
.... And like many people in the scientific community these days, he also claims the United State Government faked the Apollo 11 moon landing back in the 1969’s. Hoping they could convince the Soviets Union they had much more powerful technology, which would in turn discourage any nuclear attack attempt. Michi has provides a great deal of advanced scientific evidence suggesting it is certainly possible the United States could have faked the moon landing and of they did their plan worked....
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Darn! I thought I knew quite a few scientists. I thought I was quite well-read with the major (and some not-so-major) sciense magazines. But I must be wrong... didn't meet any of those "many people"...
Unless, offcourse, the USA government is on the lookout for these people, and are making them "disappear" when they reveal what they really know.
Hold on, there's a guy in official uniform at my front door. I'm sure it won't be a minute....
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #51 on: Aug 10th, 2004, 1:55am » |
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Now, with BNC out of the way, I move up in the rankings... Just goes to show that a little patience and a world wide conspiracy is all it takes to get ahead in the forum.
Besides, the time travelers are really aliens flying around in black helicopters kidnapping domestic animals and dunking them in tomato sauce and cooking them on a grill in the Rose Garden.
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rmsgrey
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #52 on: Aug 10th, 2004, 5:50am » |
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The thing I love about the moon landing is that it's all but impossible to prove it isn't a hoax - if it wasn't a hoax, then the only people who could know for sure are those who actually walked on the moon (assuming there's no other environment that could account for their experiences) and who's going to trust their word on it? Any other evidence could have been faked (if not at the time, then by a robot probe since) and there's no way for anyone else to be sure they weren't being hoaxed by some mysterious conspiracy...
Of course, if it was a hoax, then those responsible would know, but they're hardly likely to tell anyone either.
And isn't it interesting how so few people who know "the truth" and are willing to share it are capable of simple things like correct spelling and grammar?
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Three Hands
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #53 on: Aug 10th, 2004, 6:18am » |
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Well, the Soviets were pretty much desperate to prove that the moon landings were a hoax at the time, since they wanted to remain ahead in the space race. Given that they couldn't falsify them at the time, and this was after going over the evidence thoroughly, the more modern claims that the moon landings were fake seem less credible. Of course, there are going to be those who remain sceptical, and it cannot be proved conclusively to anyone who did not actually walk on the moon, but I would guess that it comes down to whether you feel the evidence is sufficient to convince you either for or against.
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Speaker
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #54 on: Aug 10th, 2004, 6:01pm » |
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There are artifacts left on the moon by the alleged moonwalkers (Jackson was an astronaut wasn't he?). If we can produce a telescope that is powerful enough, then we could see the base of the luner lander and other stuff. How powerful would the telescope have to be to see something so small so far away. Assuming we are looking from earth. If we pointed the hubble telescope at the moon, could it produce an image of the famous footprint?
If the lunar landing is a deceit played on the world by US scientists, then what about the mars rovers? And, how about Cassini, currently flying around Saturn? What about the robot submarine that examined the wreck of the Titanic? What about the Titanic for that matter? What about my great grandfather, who I never met, did he actually couple with my great grandmother? What about me? Is this all a dream. Do I exist?
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BNC
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #55 on: Aug 11th, 2004, 12:05am » |
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on Aug 10th, 2004, 6:01pm, Speaker wrote:
There are artifacts left on the moon by the alleged moonwalkers (Jackson was an astronaut wasn't he?). If we can produce a telescope that is powerful enough, then we could see the base of the luner lander and other stuff. How powerful would the telescope have to be to see something so small so far away. Assuming we are looking from earth. If we pointed the hubble telescope at the moon, could it produce an image of the famous footprint?
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Interesting...
Ignorion diffraction for a moment, the HST has angular resolution of 0.05 arcseconds. The mean distance between Earth and the Moon is ~384,400km
Therefore, the minimal feature size on the moon should be ~185m -- not nearly sharp enough to see the moon artifacts (that is, off course, unless I made a mistake in my "napkin calculations").
That limitation was naturally imposed by NASA to ensure their hoax won't be found... <BZZZ...OUCH!!!>... that-is-off-course-just-a-coincidense. 
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What about me? Is this all a dream. Do I exist? |
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Don't be silly. Off course you don't. Only I exist. Everything else is just a fragmant of my imagination.
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Speaker
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #56 on: Aug 11th, 2004, 12:14am » |
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Oh, okay. I don't mind being a fragment of your imagination, but could you put a little more effort into the good looking chick-magnet part. And, I could use a new car, and a raise. Otherwise, not too bad.
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rmsgrey
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #57 on: Aug 11th, 2004, 4:44am » |
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And besides, just because there are artifacts on the moon now that doesn't mean they were there in the early '70s - hence my earlier comment about robot probes...
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Speaker
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #58 on: Aug 11th, 2004, 7:57pm » |
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Yes, the robot probes. It was proven in 1974 by a congressional commission that robot probes launched and controlled by the U.S.S.R. removed the artifacts in an effort to discredit the USA. These robot probes were equipped with several branches torn off of trees along the Volga river. These branches were used to wipe away the foot prints and and marks from any equipment left by the Apollo missions.
In response to this, both houses of the US Congress voted to send NASA robot probes to replace the footprints and other marks and equipment. It should be noted that these probes carried the actual boot worn by Neil Armstrong when he filmed the lunar landing in a remote studio located in the desert of the American Southwest. 
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Grimbal
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #59 on: Aug 17th, 2004, 1:06pm » |
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Now, do you really believe the moon exists?
Actually it is just a huge cardboard disk that is made to look like a moon. If it were a real moon, it would certainly turn. But no, you always see the same face.
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Speaker
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #60 on: Aug 17th, 2004, 5:09pm » |
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That reminds me of a fairy tale. I think it is Chinese. The emperor, wanting to give his daughter the most wonderful present in the world, commissions the imperial artisans to create a beautiful single pearl necklace. It is a large round pearl on a silver chain.
He gives it to his daughter. She is delighted, and declares that it is so beautiful, that surely her father has captured the moon on a chain. The father at first agrees, telling her that, "Yes, even the moon is within his mighty reach, and he would give anything to please his daughter."
However, now the father realizes that when night falls, his daughter will discover the lie. So, he devises to hang a black curtain to block the sight of the moon from his daughter's chambers. This goes on for several months. When next he visits his daughter, he discovers that she is filled with grief and sadness.
He asks her, "Why are you so sad? I have given you everything any girl could ever hope for, including the moon."
She tells her father, "Your presents are indeed wonderful, but now the moon no longer shines."
The father is distraught. He wants to make his daughter happy again, but cannot admit he has lied. Anyway, he removes the curtains.
When the daughter sees the moon again, she is very happy. Her father asks her, "How can the moon be hanging around your neck, yet still shine in the sky?" She tells him that, "The moon, grows like a fingernail, so even if you cut it off, it will grow back."
<<The End>>
Anyway, something like that.
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rmsgrey
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #61 on: Aug 18th, 2004, 4:18am » |
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I remember a slightly different version of the story - the young princess in my story was promised whatever she wanted, and requested the moon. All the wisest men of the kingdom were completely baffled by this request and declared it impossible, but one uncommonly sensible young man went to talk to the princess, and asked her both what she thought the moon was like ("a small silver disk about the size of my fingernail") and how she thought someone could get it for her ("every night it gets caught in the branches of the tree outside my window") and promptly obtained a small silver disk about the size of the princess' fingernail and presented it to her. For a little while, all was well, but the thick curtains when she was inside and constant fireworks when she was outside began making the princess ill. The same young man went to her again, and expressed his concern that the rest of the people were now deprived of the moon, at which the princess laughed and told him that the moon was like a tooth - when you lose your tooth (as a child) a new one grows in its place, and it's the same with the moon.
If anyone's interested, I came across the tale in one book of a series "Stories for [X] Year Olds" here in the UK - I think either Eight or Ten specifically.
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Speaker
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #62 on: Aug 18th, 2004, 5:21pm » |
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Yes, that sounds more like it. Thanks for the references too. But, to keep things on track. The moon has obviously fallen out of the sky and grown back several times since the Apollo landings. Therefore, even if we go back to the moon again, there will be no evidence.
What we need to do is find the old moon. And, for that we need a map, and someone like Baron Von Munchousen.
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Craig
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Whether or not this guy is a time traveler has to be left up to speculation. As far as I am concerned he could be and he might not be. But I can't discard either side simply because I am not as well informed about physics as some are.
But there are some things that he has valid points about when we fail to even consider. It's funny in that entire web page that was posted as well as this forum posting I see no one asking whether or not it's plausible that some of the things he mentions are possible in our world today. See that's the problem with most people, especially Americans (of which I am one); they're more obsessed with proving or disproving the messenger then looking at the message.
But again, John has some valid points. In American we are obsessed with obtaining stuff. We don't care about anyone but ourselves. How many people out there can actually say that they know all of their neighbors personally? How many people here would stop to help someone out, how many have? Yet, how many people know when their neighbor gets a new SUV. How many of those people want one better?
In our security we've become selfish, lazy, and undereducated. How many people here can, off the top of their head name off more then three amendments to the constitution from the bill of rights, much less the rest of the amendments? How many people here know anything about what was taken away from us in the patriot act?
Not that I am saying we are headed to a civil war but if freedoms keep being taken away at the rate they are more and more people are going to become dissatisfied with the government. I think at this point people are still mesmerized by the whole 9/11 thing and the patriotism phenomenon. But, people are starting to wake up.
I'll tell you this much, I am defiantly considering having a few bicycle tires, and other provisions on hand for the future.
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towr
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #64 on: Aug 19th, 2004, 1:55am » |
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on Aug 18th, 2004, 6:23pm, Craig wrote:| It's funny in that entire web page that was posted as well as this forum posting I see no one asking whether or not it's plausible that some of the things he mentions are possible in our world today. |
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Euhm.. We did discussed several of the things he mentioned on the first page, like power generation, physics of timetravel etc..
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rmsgrey
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #65 on: Aug 19th, 2004, 5:04am » |
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I'd be a lot more impressed by predictions that were short-term, easily verifiable, and hard to predict. Quoting a load of SF cliches or making vague sweeping statements about future trends that any astute social observer could come up with don't count. For instance, Robert A Heinlein predicted that the US would vote in a religious fanatic as president sometime in the first few decades of this century. As far as I know, he never claimed that this prediction arose from time-travel, or anything more than direct observation of the trends at the time, and acute concern over the future of his country.
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Craig
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on Aug 19th, 2004, 1:55am, towr wrote:
Euhm.. We did discussed several of the things he mentioned on the first page, like power generation, physics of timetravel etc..
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I'm not talking about the physics bull sh*t. Cause if he is a fake, as you all say then all that crap is just that, bull sh*t. I am talking about the real social problems we have in the world right now that he hit right on the head. Or is he right; we're to happy accumulating stuff, trusting the evening news, and eating our McDonalds double cheese burger to worry about the serious problems at hand?
-Craig
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towr
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #67 on: Aug 19th, 2004, 8:24am » |
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Well that part of his message is terribly old news.. We knew that decades before he showed up on the net..
You don't exactly have to be from the future to see what is rather plainly in front of us..
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Speaker
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #68 on: Aug 19th, 2004, 5:52pm » |
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Yes, the points he makes seem to be already established problems, with as rmsgrey says, some astute interpolation. For predictions, it is hard to beat Heinlein. He also pegged the Internet back in 1950 or something. Describing it with details that have come true.
Further to the prediction (story) about the US relegious fanatic president. Heinlein tells of how that trend closed off the US from the rest of the world (like before WWII, but moreso). And, that this isolationism prevented the US from entering into a nuclear war in Europe and Asia. Which saved planet Earth (because only half the planet was destroyed) on that timeline.
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rmsgrey
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #69 on: Aug 20th, 2004, 10:41am » |
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Or even, since it goes beyond the range of known data rather than filling in gaps, some extrapolation....
Anyway, as I said, predictions that SF authors have already made aren't that impressive. Even if his predictions turn out 100% accurate, that would be only mildly impressive since it could be explained equally well be lucky guesses combined with solid observation and intuition.
To convince someone came from the future, I'd need either long-term association, or some truly surprising predictions that turn out to be entirely correct - for instance, predicting the whole kerfuffle over the German horse rider in the Olympics (whose disqualification, penalisation or exoneration determines the awarding of six medals), or even the winning lottery numbers for the next draw (which suggests that I regard time-travel as being less unlikely than 14 million to 1 odds). Of course, two or three draws worth of winning numbers (so I get the chance to "win") would be even better  but I don't want to get too greedy. The key thing is that the prediction is a) sufficiently clear and detailed to be easily proven wrong, b) sufficiently hard to fake (something that would require a government conspiracy to create probably qualifies) and c) sufficiently hard to "guess" in advance (this also applies to scenarios where the purported traveller claims to know me in the future, though there it's just a matter of coming up with a secret message that I don't believe anyone could guess...
Anyway, the simplest way for someone to convince people he's from the near future would be to look up lottery results (as a good set of random numbers generated live and widely known so easily verifiable but hard to guess) and bring them back with him. Of course, since he claims that his presence changes the future anyway, even if his story is true, his predictions may well not pan out, which means it is effectively impossible to prove him wrong - at least short of the development of a mature science of sociology capable of assessing the possible futures of our present (as of the time he was making predictions at least) - if the future he describes turns out not to be a plausible outcome when analysed by a mature science of sociology, then he's either lying, mad or from a timeline that got seriously messed up by some outside intervention. The only other ways I can think of to prove him wrong are direct (divine) revelation or the development of real time machines (or at least time viewers) and their use to establish where he really came from.
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geoff
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #70 on: Jan 15th, 2005, 10:38pm » |
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John Titor !!!!
give me a break sounds like Dr WHO the TERMINATOR and BACK TO THE FUTURE all rolled into one and add something that looks like a ghostbuster ghost trap and call it a Time Machine ,surely theres a copywright infringement
also looking at the photo of the laser in car it's funny how only laser light was bent
how can anyone believe in this rubbish
rule of thumb if it sounds unbelievible it usually is
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PM Larsson
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Umm yeah, lets get this straight, this nutjob proposes to use an IBM 5100 to debug legacy code and re-engineer it for use on a unix system.
*cough*
uh-huh a machine with can only execute 360 instructions out of ROM would be able to read most IBM legacy code... dont think so.
Besides which the cheap quick solution would be grabbing the code as is and stuffing it on a lovely spanking new 64-bit unix box running an emulator.
No time travel or real effort required.
But no, lets invent time travel, go back in time and grab a useless 5100 box which cant read most IBM legacy code or communicate with a unix box.
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kiwi2000
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #72 on: Nov 16th, 2005, 2:27am » |
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No doubt John's story makes interesting reading.
Has anyone thought of suggesting it would make a great movie ?. Should send Peter Jackson an e mail , as he's always open to ideas.
I agree with Pair "o" Ducks when he raises a theological question of multiple souls.
Example:
John's aunty Betty died 10yrs ago and her soul went to hell, John goes back say 2 yrs before she dies and she accepts Christ as her personal saviour. The next day John takes her to the future ,say 14 yrs.
Question:
If aunt Betty is still alive now, is her soul still in Hell from when she died before Titor came in contact with her? The word of God tells me once you die you're in a place waiting for the Judgement day , and only Christ has the power to raise our soul from the dead. Once it's done it's done, and I don't believe there can be multiple souls of the same person in either hell or heaven.
For me personally, my Christian theology tells me that what this guy is saying is not logically possible, and I agree with Icarus conclusion to who "John Titor" actually is.
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towr
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #73 on: Nov 16th, 2005, 3:47am » |
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Aunt Betty won't have died before after John saved her before she did. Her soul will never have been in Hell in the first place.
Unless you work with multiple time lines, but then the one aunt Betty isn't the other; even though they're identical with respect to everything except the timeline they occupy.
Also I have to take issue with theology having anything to say on what is and isn't logical. It may have something to say on what is and isn't the case, but that's something different.
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Icarus
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Re: John Titor
« Reply #74 on: Dec 31st, 2005, 1:25pm » |
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Well, the deadline is almost here. John's U.S. Civil war has less than a day to start (less than half a day unless it starts in Hawaii) to meet his 2005 prediction. I guess I better grab my rifle (I hope the gun store is still open) and head to the streets to get the ball rolling, since surely Johnny must be the real thing!
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