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(Message started by: username101 on Aug 12th, 2007, 12:36pm)
Title: Life after death
Post by username101 on Aug 12th, 2007, 12:36pm
I believe in it how many skeptics are on this website tho post ur reasons
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by Sameer on Aug 12th, 2007, 12:48pm
i don't... i believe everything we see or who we are (or as we say life) is just a biochemical process that was triggered due to right conditions and the end of such a biochemical reaction is death...
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by username101 on Aug 12th, 2007, 12:53pm
but you can also be recarnated in some religions, but when you rot u rot but  ghosts can come back to haunt plus my gramma died 2 weeks ago from cancer, and she told us she had some conversations with some old freinds which died long ago.

And another thing she said she was leaving on a trip in a week one week be4 she died
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by username101 on Aug 12th, 2007, 12:59pm

on 08/12/07 at 12:54:34, ThudanBlunder wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting there are corpses that rise from their graves at night to drink the blood of the living?

Do I also need to state my reasons for believing that the moon is not made of yellow cheese?   ::)


im not suggesting zombies but of places like heaven and hell, coming back to the world in a different being, not just human but animal, or even just a spirit
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by towr on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:02pm
I'm skeptical about life after death. There isn't really any proof (other than anecdotes which may as well be made up, hallucinations or misinterpretations). If someone is really dead, they can't come back to report what happens afterwards.
And considering the large number of views on an afterlife, they can't all be right; and then which would be, if any? There isn't any argument to prefer one over the other.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by username101 on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:08pm
http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

People sometimes remember of a past life
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by Sameer on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:10pm

on 08/12/07 at 12:53:18, username101 wrote:
but you can also be recarnated in some religions


I know.. I am a Hindu and they believe that this happens.. yet I don't as I mentioned earlier..

Few questions:

Why only religious people see ghosts?

When someone claims to talk about bright light and what not who's to say their physical condition didn't cause a psychological effect?

The way our neural pathways are programmed, who's to say what mind can concoct up!!!
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by username101 on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:21pm
not only religous people see ghosts.

And yes the "light at the end of tunnel" could just be ur mind shutting down or something along that line. but in many cases people good and bad that go down that tunnel and come back out say that there was a great being at the end of th tunnel then made them feel secure, happy and that all wrong was right
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by ThudanBlunder on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:23pm

on 08/12/07 at 12:59:29, username101 wrote:
im not suggesting zombies but of places like heaven and hell, coming back to the world in a different being, not just human but animal, or even just a spirit

Sorry, I confused this thread with the Vampire one.
Then I went and deleted my post, not realizing that you had responded (or perhaps you responded later).  
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by username101 on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:28pm
no i responded to it but all well
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by ThudanBlunder on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:41pm

on 08/12/07 at 13:28:02, username101 wrote:
no i responded to it but all well

What I want to know is 'Is there life before death?'    :(    

;)
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by username101 on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:43pm
now that is a hard question because if there is life after death there must be life before death or else we are not really here and what are we doing right now will have no consequence
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by ThudanBlunder on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:51pm

on 08/12/07 at 13:43:33, username101 wrote:
now that is a hard question because if there is life after death there must be life before death or else we are not really here and what are we doing right now will have no consequence

I jokingly meant life as in one worth living, duh.  
I guess I am not the only one who should get out more.    :P
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by towr on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:56pm

on 08/12/07 at 13:08:53, username101 wrote:
http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

People sometimes remember of a past life
I'd say, sometimes people think they remember past lives.
And with the thousands of people that think that, some will have come up with details that actually fit some deceased person's life well enough to give some suggestion of past life memory.
It never seems to be some very definite detail though, like the proof to Fermat's last theorem. Now if someone came back remembering that, that'd be interesting and highly unique.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by username101 on Aug 12th, 2007, 3:57pm
or if galileo came back, and life is worth living or else we would all go emo and slit our wrists and hang ourselves
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by JiNbOtAk on Aug 12th, 2007, 11:32pm
Personally, I believe in life after death. I also believe in life before death. Just because I don't any recollection of either, does not mean it's not true. I don't remember any of the time I spent in my mother's womb, but I definitely was there ! ( According to my mom, who do not have any reason to say otherwise )

Whether the life after death is about reincarnation, or about paradise or hades, or maybe something totally different, well, that's up to the individual's beliefs. We each have our own religion; even then, we choose what we want to believe, as Sameer had pointed out.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by username101 on Aug 12th, 2007, 11:36pm
yay some1 believes what i believe it thought i w*ould b the only one but true you believe what you believe but im just trying to get a convo going
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by towr on Aug 13th, 2007, 1:04am
When you die, your soul goes up on a roof and you can't get it down.



Well, ok, so I only really believe in religion as parody. What else would I get out of it, though?
I'm more a discordian than frisbeetarian though, but I don't recall discordianism having any tenets about life after death.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by Three Hands on Aug 13th, 2007, 7:06am
I generally take the view that, once I'm dead, either I'll find out what happens, or it won't matter to me much. Either way, there's not a lot I can do about it, and worrying about what awaits me isn't going to do much other than distract from other things.

But I certainly don't begrudge anyone having their own beliefs about such matters...
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by ThudanBlunder on Aug 16th, 2007, 10:01am

on 08/12/07 at 23:36:09, username101 wrote:
...but im just trying to get a convo going

Yeah, but we discussed this before in Medium.   :P
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by mikedagr8 on Aug 18th, 2007, 2:38am
The question is there a life after death? Well the way i see it there are a few answers.
1. It has not been discovered yet
2. It does not exist
3. Our minds are to feeble to possibly grasp this
4. Depends on what you count as life and death

That's my opinion, if you would like to add please feel free, but for now i believe there is no reincarnation or ressurection ofr those who either chose not to have it or deserve it.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by ThudanBlunder on Aug 21st, 2007, 4:48pm

on 08/18/07 at 02:38:19, mikedagr8 wrote:
The question is...

...how do you define 'life'?
Is it body? Obviously not.

Is it mind, personality, etc?
I would call this 'ego', a sense of self.

Does (the ego of) a dewdrop exist after sliding into the shining sea?
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by Sameer on Aug 21st, 2007, 5:33pm
I think the biggest question to ask would be what is it that makes us (most 'lifeform' as we say) self-aware ...  Leaving aside the philosophical aspects of life/death etc., is it your neural pathways? What biochemical agent is there in living organisms that give them self-awareness. The other thing I always find myself thinking about is can we answer this question using an analogy to computers/software?
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by ThudanBlunder on Aug 21st, 2007, 7:18pm

on 08/21/07 at 17:33:44, Sameer wrote:
I think the biggest question to ask would be what is it that makes us (most 'lifeform' as we say) self-aware ...  

Did SkyNet become self-aware in the twinkling of an I or do you believe there are shades of self-awareness?
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by Sameer on Aug 21st, 2007, 9:48pm

on 08/21/07 at 19:18:33, ThudanBlunder wrote:
Did SkyNet become self-aware in the twinkling of an I or do you believe there are shades of self-awareness?


I don't know what to think of the skynet!!! The movie doesn't talk a lot about what it was, how it was built, etc.

As far as the other question I believe there are shades of self-awareness which leads to various characteristics or evolutionary properties. As for e.g. a bacteria is self-aware and knows its purpose as to reproduce. Higher living organisms like humans use self-awareness as discussion topics.  ;) I really like this story:

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by JiNbOtAk on Aug 21st, 2007, 11:18pm
Sameer, very interesting. I don't think the Christians would agree on the last bit though.  ::)
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by TheNumberScott on Aug 22nd, 2007, 12:51am
very interesting story indeed. thanks for the link.

what part do you think Christians would not agree with?
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by towr on Aug 22nd, 2007, 1:07am

on 08/22/07 at 00:51:14, TheNumberScott wrote:
very interesting story indeed. thanks for the link.

what part do you think Christians would not agree with?
That God is a computer created by the previous race of Man.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by TheNumberScott on Aug 22nd, 2007, 1:58am
well, yeah, not taken literally no.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by denis on Aug 22nd, 2007, 1:01pm
Do you believe in luck?  

For how many years have sentient humans (homo-sapiens) existed? I would say at least a few million years.  Now in all that time, what are the odds that any one of us are alive in this short time slice in the 21'th century when compared to over a few million years of sentient existence.  I don't really believe in reincarnation but isn't it strange that you are alive right now as we speak when the odds are less than 1 in a million?  :o

There is obviously a flaw in my argument somewhere (e.g. there were less humans in the old days) but to tell you the truth, I don't really believe in luck either...
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by Sameer on Aug 22nd, 2007, 1:20pm
Interpreting from various religions the amount of soul in the universe is constant  8)
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by denis on Aug 22nd, 2007, 1:44pm

on 08/22/07 at 13:20:00, Sameer wrote:
Interpreting from various religions the amount of soul in the universe is constant  8)


What about soul music?  :)
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by mikedagr8 on Aug 22nd, 2007, 7:10pm

Quote:
but isn't it strange that you are alive right now as we speak when the odds are less than 1 in a million?


We're typing, not speaking, someone is silly.  ::)
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by TheNumberScott on Aug 22nd, 2007, 8:53pm
I thought that I had heard that there were more people on the earth now, than the rest of history up to now combined. If that's true, then I'd say the chances are around 1/2.

Even if it's not true, someones gotta be alive right now. why not us?
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by JiNbOtAk on Aug 22nd, 2007, 9:10pm
True, and why would it be luckier to live in this slice of the 21st century, than in any other century ? We may know stuff people back then didn't know, but that doesn't mean we're luckier, eh ?

( We could go down the divine intervention road again..)
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by mikedagr8 on Aug 22nd, 2007, 9:21pm

Quote:
True, and why would it be luckier to live in this slice of the 21st century, than in any other century ? We may know stuff people back then didn't know, but that doesn't mean we're luckier, eh ?  


Here's a neat video which i found interesting, it's semi-related.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljbI-363A2Q
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by towr on Aug 23rd, 2007, 12:32am

on 08/22/07 at 21:21:27, mikedagr8 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljbI-363A2Q
It's interesting at the start, but it gets patently ridiculous at the end with its predictions of the future. Those predictions are likely to be as accurate as predictions made 30 years ago that we'd all be driving flying cars, have robots to serve us, and be wearing silver clothing by 2000..
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by mikedagr8 on Aug 23rd, 2007, 1:08am

Quote:
flying cars, have robots to serve us, and be wearing silver clothing by 2000


True, but they are all impractical for the time being, we don't have AI,. but there are bartending robots, Flying cars, are not possible without huge prices and silver clothing is too expensive and heavy.

If the predictions were 100% accurate it would be scary, but they are only predictions.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by towr on Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:23am

on 08/23/07 at 01:08:43, mikedagr8 wrote:
If the predictions were 100% accurate it would be scary, but they are only predictions.
Yes, but when predictions are consistently 99.9% inaccurate, they're superfluous.
Predictions should at least be grounded in some sense of reality. I mean, it doesn't make sense to say things like, "Speed skaters now finish the 10 kilometers 3 minutes faster than they did 50 years ago, in 150 more years they'll be finished before they started".
That's totally bonkers; yet the kind of predictions people get away with.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by ima1trkpny on Aug 23rd, 2007, 1:13pm

on 08/23/07 at 08:23:48, towr wrote:
Yes, but when predictions are consistently 99.9% inaccurate, they're superfluous.
Predictions should at least be grounded in some sense of reality. I mean, it doesn't make sense to say things like, "Speed skaters now finish the 10 kilometers 3 minutes faster than they did 50 years ago, in 150 more years they'll be finished before they started".
That's totally bonkers; yet the kind of predictions people get away with.

Excellent point. It makes predictions, but it assumes a constant rate of progress, something quite impossible beyond a certain point (as some things like finishing a race before you started), and disregards the fluctuating variables of life.
I have to say I agree with Three Hand's opinion... I would like to think so, but there is no way for me to find out for sure either way, so I guess I will just wait and see and enjoy the time I do have living.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by mikedagr8 on Aug 23rd, 2007, 2:50pm

Quote:
Predictions should at least be grounded in some sense of reality. I mean, it doesn't make sense to say things like, "Speed skaters now finish the 10 kilometers 3 minutes faster than they did 50 years ago, in 150 more years they'll be finished before they started".
That's totally bonkers; yet the kind of predictions people get away with.


Obviously to an extent it can occur, but there is always a limit, and then it declines. E.g. Stock markets, the computer world, sprinting records.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by username101 on Aug 26th, 2007, 1:39am
lol i leave for a week and we went from life to death to religion to luck and now to a computer that will rule us
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by iatkrox on Jul 2nd, 2012, 4:38am
I believe,Because i am a Muslim ;)
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by atyq on Jul 27th, 2012, 5:31pm
When you die, your brain stop working... You can't think, so you are dead...
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by alien2 on Aug 17th, 2012, 11:05am
Seven of Nine: Human attitudes toward death are perplexing.
Tuvok: How so?
Seven of Nine: Too much importance is placed on it. There seem to be countless rituals and cultural beliefs designed to alleviate their fear of a simple biological truth: all organisms eventually perish.
Tuvok: I take it the Borg have no fear of that biological truth?
Seven of Nine: None. When a drone is damaged beyond repair, it is discarded. But its memories continue to exist in the collective consciousness. To use a human term, the Borg are immortal.
Tuvok: You are no longer part of the Collective. You are mortal now like the rest of us. Does that disturb you?
Seven of Nine: My connection to the Borg has been severed. But the Collective still possesses my recollections, my experiences. In a sense, I will always exist.
Tuvok: Fascinating. That must be a great relief.
Seven of Nine: [reflective] Yes. It is.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by bluviaggiatore on Aug 20th, 2012, 5:29am
there should be a life or something like that . Human body produces energy and energy never gone away ,it turns another form . So What happens this energy after death goes another universe ?
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by towr on Aug 20th, 2012, 7:11am

on 08/20/12 at 05:29:27, bluviaggiatore wrote:
So What happens this energy after death goes another universe ?
No, all that remains is simply heat, in this universe. As what all energy ends up as.
Actually, it's wrong to say the human body produces energy, since conservation of energy means it is never produced nor destroyed. We just transform one form of energy into another, increasing entropy as we go along.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by moriarty on Dec 12th, 2012, 8:15am
how can be posible the life after death , i can´t belive it .there´s nothing after death.maybe there´s something inyour brain that could make a paralel world for your minds.(i am sorry for my english)

// removed probable spam -- towr
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by alien2 on Dec 12th, 2012, 8:54am

on 12/12/12 at 08:15:08, moriarty wrote:
there´s nothing after death.

Are (http://near-death.com/experiences/research16.html) you sure (http://io9.com/5862418/10-bodily-functions-that-continue-after-death)?
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by Mariko79 on Apr 1st, 2013, 4:06am

on 08/12/07 at 12:48:23, Sameer wrote:
i don't... i believe everything we see or who we are (or as we say life) is just a biochemical process that was triggered due to right conditions and the end of such a biochemical reaction is death...

Never say never....It's not about our body...it's about the entire information from our souls...
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by towr on Apr 1st, 2013, 5:28am
But that presupposes there is a soul, and that the "entire information" is something other than a biochemical process. There is no convincing evidence that there is something non-physical (a soul) influencing the physical (the body), nor a known way that it could.
If there is a soul, and it, rather than our brain, makes up who we are, then at the very least it is deeply influenced by the brain; as evidenced by all the natural experiments provided by brain-damage of all sorts -- things like strokes can radically change people's personality and abilities. So that would not spell much good for a soul if the brain dies; if even relatively minor brain damage has such effects, I can only imagine what total brain-death would do.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by Grimbal on Apr 1st, 2013, 9:33am
I would even argue that if it affects the physical world (as when our decisions translate into actions), and it is affected by the physical world (as when we drink alcohol), then it is part of the physical world.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by towr on Apr 1st, 2013, 10:13am
Yes. It would be hard to imagine some sort of non-physical interaction.
On the other hand, to name something crazy, suppose we're in a simulation and our brains are actually somewhere in a jar outside the simulation, then our mind works mostly outside of the universe and not under the same physical laws, and it'd be easy to shield it from physical examination from within the simulation. But it's difficult to interact with this world from outside without breaking physical laws (conservation of energy, momentum etc). On the other hand, cheating gets really easy in such a setup. And you can control chaotic systems with minimal interference, perhaps limited enough to get lost in quantum noise.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by Grimbal on Apr 1st, 2013, 1:13pm
Then the physical world would include you + the jar + the computer running the simulation.

But I don't think it makes a difference whether we are in a simulation or not, as long as whoever is running it is committed to respect the laws of physics.

The idea that our "out of the world" decisions could be sneaked into the simulated physical world via quantum fluctuations just means that there could be something else than pure randomness behind quantum collapse.  And that a soul could hide there.

It still would be part of the real world.  And there is no reason to believe it would be set free by the death of our physical body.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by towr on Apr 1st, 2013, 10:33pm

on 04/01/13 at 13:13:16, Grimbal wrote:
But I don't think it makes a difference whether we are in a simulation or not, as long as whoever is running it is committed to respect the laws of physics.
But it would mean there is more than the physical laws, because they can't run the universe in the same way on their own. There's something extra put in from outside. There'd be an extra set 'rules' we're not privy to, can't observe, and can't use.


Quote:
It still would be part of the real world.
Part of the real world, yes, but not part of this physical universe. But that's what you get with any type of dualism, a "real world" that consists of more than one part.


Quote:
And there is no reason to believe it would be set free by the death of our physical body.
But it in this case there's clearly no reason to think it'd die with, either.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by Grimbal on Apr 2nd, 2013, 4:34am

on 04/01/13 at 22:33:37, towr wrote:
But it would mean there is more than the physical laws, because they can't run the universe in the same way on their own. There's something extra put in from outside. There'd be an extra set 'rules' we're not privy to, can't observe, and can't use.

It makes a difference to them, but not to us.  Whether the laws of physics describe actual space and particles or whether they are just arbitrary rules in a program doesn't make a difference to us.  We would just run on a different hardware.


Quote:
But it in this case there's clearly no reason to think it'd die with, either.

As you mentioned before, the fact that consciousness can be knocked out by damaging the brain would imply that the brain is necessary for consciousness.

I don't know what the soul is, but it seems it is tightly linked to our consciousness.

So I believe the soul would not survive being disconnected from the body.  If it does, it would probably do so in eternal boredom by being deprived of a body to interact with the world (or a world).
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by towr on Apr 2nd, 2013, 9:27am

on 04/02/13 at 04:34:23, Grimbal wrote:
It makes a difference to them, but not to us.  Whether the laws of physics describe actual space and particles or whether they are just arbitrary rules in a program doesn't make a difference to us.  We would just run on a different hardware.
I don't quite get what you're trying to say here. For starters which is them and which is us?

Basically what I'm saying is that if two people are playing chess, and I come along and take their kings, the rules of chess haven't changed. I wasn't part of the game, but I can break in from outside and mess it up. Same with a simulated world, it can run along with its own rules, but anyone in the the meta-reality can potential break in from the outside and do things not allowed by the rules of the world (i.e. play god).
And in a non-deterministic system, you have the extra wiggle-room to mess with a system in a way that doesn't overtly break any rules. If I control the dice, I can determine who'll win the game of monopoly; and since the winner might just as well have won by chance, no one's the wiser (if I didn't overdo things).
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by Grimbal on Apr 7th, 2013, 8:46am

on 04/02/13 at 09:27:41, towr wrote:
I don't quite get what you're trying to say here. For starters which is them and which is us?

It was in the perspective of "is it possible that we are running in a simulator run by some supernatural beings?".  "us" are the simulated people, "them" are those running the simulation.


Quote:
Basically what I'm saying is that if two people are playing chess, and I come along and take their kings, the rules of chess haven't changed. I wasn't part of the game, but I can break in from outside and mess it up. Same with a simulated world, it can run along with its own rules, but anyone in the the meta-reality can potential break in from the outside and do things not allowed by the rules of the world (i.e. play god).
And in a non-deterministic system, you have the extra wiggle-room to mess with a system in a way that doesn't overtly break any rules. If I control the dice, I can determine who'll win the game of monopoly; and since the winner might just as well have won by chance, no one's the wiser (if I didn't overdo things).

My view is that if the supernatural beings (or chess players) strictly follow the laws of physics, it will bring us to existence the same as if we are running on "real" particles.  Why particle exist is a mystery anyway, so they might as well be the result of a perfect simulation.
If these supernatural beings interfere, either by breaking the laws of physics or by biasing the results of some quantum measurements, then we will be able to notice them and they become part of our reality.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by algeriano on Dec 20th, 2013, 2:11pm
Absolutely there is a life after death because we are sure that the human body is not just a body it contains soul too..so the body dies but the soul still exists
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by anglia on Aug 15th, 2015, 1:16am
I am not sure about it, because I have not seen anything that make me believe that there is a life after death. As our body contain some strong energy which is called soul, and my logic is that soul travel from one body to other to stay alive. As soul is persistent. So energy need source to alive.
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by gitanas on Jun 22nd, 2016, 8:45am
Indians have the process you can see your past lives. I don't remember the process of the name
Title: Re: Life after death
Post by EdwardSmith on Jan 23rd, 2017, 9:45am
You never stop living and you never stop dying.

Im coming back as a bird.


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