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        riddles >> what am i >> Larger than the Universe
        
(Message started by: Skull Warrior on Jan 23^rd, 2003, 11:18pm)

Title: Larger than the Universe
Post by Skull Warrior on Jan 23^rd, 2003, 11:18pm

Ok here is my riddle I have gave it much thought abd I have a friend who knows the answer but will only tell me once I get it right I was hoping for some help.

When standing up, tall as can be,
I am less than two hands,
less than two hands free.

Yet when knocked down, and long as can be.
I am more than the universe, for there is nothing greater than me.

Title: Re: Larger than the Universe
Post by BNC on Jan 24^th, 2003, 12:31am

I was thinking "shadow", but the part about "more than the universe" doesn't seem to fit.

Title: Re: Larger than the Universe
Post by redPEPPER on Jan 24^th, 2003, 2:53am

[hide]8

two hand is 10 fingers. 8 is less than 10.
knock down the 8 and you get...[/hide]

Woohoo! I got one ;D
How does William Wu says? I experienced an epiphany 8)

Title: Re: Larger than the Universe
Post by Skull Warrior on Jan 24^th, 2003, 5:36am

I will ask him about Shadow when I seem him thanksm but as you said it doesn't really fit. does anybody else have any ideas.

Title: Re: Larger than the Universe
Post by redPEPPER on Jan 24^th, 2003, 9:27am

Well... I posted one... Which fits perfectly!

I'll add that reading the answer will probably add nothing to your enjoyment of the riddle. Your friend is smart not to let you know the answer before you find it by yourself.

But if you want to know anyway ... read above.

Title: Re: Larger than the Universe
Post by BNC on Jan 24^th, 2003, 10:06am

redPEPPER,

I agree your answer is most probably the intended one. Myself, I still don't feel comfortable with [hide]infinity[/hide] being described as "larger than the universe".
[hide] Some things in the universe may be infinite. To quote Einstein: "There are only two infinite things: The Universe, and Men’s Stupidity; And I’m not sure about the former." :D
Math itself is, in a sense, part of the universe. Hence, so is the "infinity" concept
[/hide]

Title: Re: Larger than the Universe
Post by redPEPPER on Jan 24^th, 2003, 3:15pm

well it's a riddle, you've got to allow some artistic license ;)

[hide]The riddle says "I am more than the universe" but it justifies it by the fact that "there is nothing greater than me" While you can argue than infinity isn't larger than the universe, there's certainly no number greater than it.[/hide]

I like the riddle. Especially the part that "it" is smaller when it stands tall than when it's knocked down.

Title: Re: Larger than the Universe
Post by Icarus on Jan 24^th, 2003, 6:10pm

The universe is finite in size, so that part of the riddle I have no problem with. It is to the other part, which redPEPPER so blithely endorses, that I take issue:

[hide] There are numbers larger than infinity! There are whole multitudes of them. Infinity to an infinite power of them and more! There are so many that no set is big enough to hold them all. They are many different types of them too: Cardinals and Ordinals and Continuum infinities. The long line! The physical universe is finite, but the universe of mathematics has long since incompassed infinity and expanded beyond! [/hide]

Title: Re: Larger than the Universe
Post by redPEPPER on Jan 25^th, 2003, 4:09am

Hehee, I knew someone might say that when I wrote it.
But [hide] am I mistaken when I think that, for example, infinity to an infinite power is also infinity? Yes, I know it's not the same infinity and it's bigger than the original infinity. But isn't it also named "infinity" anyway?

I'm better at logic than at math theory so I might be wrong.[/hide]

Title: Re: Larger than the Universe
Post by Icarus on Jan 25^th, 2003, 11:46am

I hide no more! If anyone has read this far down, they have doubtless highlighted the previous messages, so what is the point?

Numbers larger than infinity are still called infinite, but not "infinity", which is normally used to denote any of these 3:

http://tcw2.ppsw.rug.nl/~towr/PHP/formula.php?formula=%5Cinfty%2C++%5Comega%2C+++%5Caleph_0

(the continuum infinity, the least infinite ordinal, and the least infinite cardinal, also called "aleph nought").

Other infinite numbers are called "infinities", as I did in the previous post, but by "infinity" only these three are ever meant. Much in the same way that we speak of "cities" in general, but if we say "the city", we usually have a specific one in mind.