Attendance:
*sanjayk
*alanw
*sherryg
*wchn
kwinterl
*simplyhd
Genevieve
Han
simplyhd

* = on BoD

Agenda:
tmtong
Cal Day
Plans
Decal

Bod starts 7:25 PM

Someone complains that there is questionable and/or illegal content on a user's website.
We forward message to user and tell them to inform us on what they plant
If user doesn't respond we promptly we sorry account

simplyhd arrives.

Sanjay: If someone complains about copyright issues (questionable content), we forward the mssage to the user and say that we will not act as the middle man. Everyoen agrees on that part. Regarldess of whether it's user or gourp account, if they don't respond to that message in a timely action, we will sorry account until they respond. We're worried bout this stage. We can do this with a group account because they are required to check email. With personal user accounts, if there is a message or complaint about their site, the question is whether we do anything to their site. We have some leverage in getting the user to resolve the situation promptly because if we don't have some sort of leverage.... If they don't respond, we have to deal with the emails and force us to be a middle man. At what point is a claim frivolous... The reason I have this process is that it's much easier to have a set process (have a certain amount of time) and then sorry it, so that there is no judgmeent on the OCf on whether it's frivolous. It's difficult to tell if you see a complain and whether it has legal worth (hold itn a court of law). Once you have staff judging that, you can have all sorts of weird situations (not anticipating that something may become bigger than it actually is). Recently, our process is being called into question. Other than court order, there is nothing that forces us to contact a user (the last part of the process is called into question). Copyright or within campus content questions... If it's a group account, there are tchnical concerns. If there is a privacy concern, we don't threaten to sorry the account (unless they're a group account). This is the gray area: at what point can be threaten a user to deactivate their account (can we make the user resolve the situation).
Karl: I think the intent is to do whatever we can to give the user an opportunity to...
Sanjay: Yes, all of this is to protect the user. They can say that they don't want to do anything. But if a user has not been responding to us, do we have the right to disable their account if only to force them to talk to us.
Karl: So we could violate campus privacy regulations.
Sanjay: So we need to be careful that when someone comes with a complaint, but we can't give them information. Even though they're EECS, I can't give out thei SID unless there's a campus order. Can we tell them that we will disable their account unles they don't respond? This had never been an issue before because it had mostly been group accounts.
Karl: So it's basically a question of if we say that we'll disable your account and yes you talked to us, we're basicallky forcing him to speak in a potentially legal situation...
Sanjay: We don't tell them to resolve it in two weeks. We tell them to tell us what to do in two weeks. It would be bad if the site wasn't being used. There are a lot of legal issues that we shouldn't look at it from a legal standpoint since the university owns our network. This has implications. We have the right to do this, the question is whether we're doing right by doing this.
Karl: So what's wrong?
Sanjay: We're saying that this is wrong because this is potentially a frivolous claim, which I agree with intellectually. But I think if we don't have leverage to force users to respond. There is a lot of incentive for them to not respond, and then we would have to deal with it.
Karl: We can tell CS department to contact him directly. Say that it's the responsibility to figure out how to contact him.
Sanjay: That's what we've been sugesting.
Karl: If they can't, then they need a court order to ..
Sanjay: I don't want anything to escalate to a court order. From a PR perspective, this is really bad. We want the two sides to sort it out behind the scenes. If they sue each other without us being involved, that's fine, but I don't want us to be legal council for the user. That's my take on it. 
Alan:
Sanjay:We got an email from EECS that says that there are solution to a whole semester's class. I don't want to act as the middle man, I forwarded it to the person and if you don't tell me what you want to do, I'm going to sorry your account. I was told that we don't have the right to do this. Isn't it the user's right to sorry that issue? There was some defense that posting solutions is not copyright. The issue is can we tell the user not to have this thing stick around and tell them to contact the other party? I feel that if we don't have a little bit of a threat if they don't respond to us, I'm afriad that we will have to defend our users, which I don't think is worthwhile.
Karl: I think it's important to be kind of activist for users and not just do..
Sanjay: I understand why people are angry. This is the system that prevents us from taking one side or another. If we didn't threat, then we're obviously taking the side of the user. Technically we're on university property and it's on our servers, so we need to care about the problem. If we took down the page, we would be taking the side of the person who made the complaint. Alan, what do you think?
Alan: Well, I think, hold on...Han is coming so I will wait so I don't have to repeat myself.
Sanjay: This time because it's hw solutions, there are so many other things playing in. We would like to codify some sort of process.
Alan: If he was putting up Britney Spears' album, we can shut him down, but this is harry because it's homework solutions and there  are no copyrights. Technically, it's your own property and you decide to put them up.

Han comes in.
Sanjay: But the solutions are derived from someone else's work.
Alan: Mike talked to Robert, but he's not here.
simplyhd: I don't think we should take a side as staff.
Aln: If they prove that we have been negligent, we can be sued.
Sanjay: Suppose that there was copyrighted material and someoen complained that they have a pending court order and we say that we actually have to see the subpoena. We can get into trouble, especially if it's time-sensitive material.
Genevieve walks in.
simplyhd: We're not an ordeinary host, we're under the university.
Sanjay: If we don't put this process, a future site manager may have to go to court.
simplyhd: I think we should always have a policy that doesn't force point to take a legal standpoint.
Sanjay: That's why we have a current policy.
Alan: You can look at sorrying someone's account as saying sides. You're sorrying the account to prompt a response. If they cared, then they would respond and get them to take care of it. But if the user says that it's their property. If he doesn't respond, what happens?
Sanjay: The extra step is there to take the middel ground.
Alan: If they did respond back, then we can't be held responsible.
Sanjay: If I sorry the account and they respond, I can fix it immediately.
Alan: How would we tell that to campus? They may think that we're siding... The user will ask The university will ask
Han: I think that saying that we want a response is fine.
Sanjay: It's not whether we have the right to do it is whether we're doing the right thing. If sorrying the account is taking a side. If we didn't have the threat of sorrying, a user has much more gain of not responding to the email. The user is insulated until we have a court order and we don't want it to get to that point. This is just to protect staff members. Should we be taking this approach to users? Until Mike tells us what Robert says, we'll talk about this later.

Cal Day
Alan: Someone needs to be there early. 
simplyhd: If I'm not passed out, 
Han: I will.
Alan: We will need someone to man the lab. Han, you can't do that cause you're the penguin.  We need people to be in the lab. 
Han: Couldn't you recruit from the staff email list?
Alan: Who do you think is not here that is active that I can contact? Mike and Jordan. The point is that we need someone.
simplyhd: I can do the smash.
Alan: Someone just needs to manage it. TJ can't do it.
Han: Isn't Mike going to be there?
Sanjay: We don't want to make the decision for him. We generally have 1-2 staff members in the lab and the vast majority at the table taking pictures and stuff.
Alan: I want all of us to discuss the wheel and discuss what's going to be on there. Last year we did free pages and quota. I think paper is what we want. Last year, we gave denominations of 10 to 50. People get a coupon and bring it to the lab and we give them the pages. The catch is that if you bring a friend with you, you get double the amount. The point of this is to bring people. By getting people, we might get interested people. Our table is going to be right outside MLK. We get a reserve spot because we are part of ASUC Auxiliary. So we need to come up what goes on the wheel. I was thinking of denominations of paper, a category that counts as random stuff (getting bing calendars).
Sanjay: We need to get candy.
Alan: What denominations of paper to use?
Han: What do we do with candy? 
Alan: I think that was on the wheel. I think we'll have a jackpot spot it will either be 100 free pages or an OCF t-shirt.
Han: We could have both.
simplyhd: If we put it on one, then it's a chance of 1 out of 16.
Alan: Do we want to do 10,20,30, 40,50, 100 pages? Do we want a slot for random stuff or for bing calendars?
Han: Let's have two bing calendars on opposite sides.
alan: we have 100 pages, t-shirt, two bing calendars, so we have 12 left.
Han: Let's do 10 through 50.
Alan: Let's do two of each of the page denominations. It's just somethign that grabs users. We have two slots left. Should we give candy?
Genevieve: We should put candy then.
Han: We have 3 ten pages.
Alan: Or we could have a 5 page one. Okay, so 3 ten pages.
simplyhd: Or we could have spin again.
Alan: That's good.

2 10, 2 20, 2 30, 2 40, 2 50, 1 100, 1 t-shirt, 2 calendars, 1 spin again, 1 candy *Sherry make this for wheel

Alan: Does everyone have a t-shirt?
Han: TJ wants us to reserve a t-shirt.
Alan: So you're doing the smash tournament, simplyhd? I just need to make sure that people will be there. So simplyhd and Genevieve be at lab. I think Mike should be there because he has the keys to it. I also need to make Mike fix the wheel. * Other than that...

Mike arrives.

Alan: What did Rob tell you about the whole thing?
Mike: I have an appointment with the ASUC attorney tomorrow.
Alan: We came down to sorrying someone's account is to prompt a response.
Mike: But why do they need to respond? If they don't respond it's still not our problem. It's not our job to police other people's sites unless they're illegal. 
Alan: We don't know if there is a law against them.
Mike: The policy should be, if in doubt, go the safe route and disable the account. But if we know they're not doing anyting wrong, then it's up to the complaint person to get in touch with the account holder.
Sanjay: It's unclear what the work was, if it was written by tmtong or some GSI.
Mike: The law is very clear on copyright violations, which is that when we receive a notice from the copyright-holder or their agent specifically stating that there has been a breach of copyright then we are legally required to respond. If they don't specifically allege copyright, then even if we have reason to believe there is a copyright violation, then we don't have to respond.
Alan: What about this case since there is no law?
Mike: This is one of those edge cases, so I'm going to meet with the attorney to get the specific details of this case. And then we'll proceed.
Sanjay: Do you agree with our process that if htey don't respond promptly then we should sorry them?
Mike: I don't think we should sorry them unless they're violating our policies, the university's, or the law. I object ot the questionable part, it shouldn't be our part of whether it should be our thing.
Sanjay: Where does academic dishonesty fit in? 
Mike: So you mean questionable legality..
Sanjay: We're also infringing on the user's right not to respond.
Mike: There are cases where we need a response. The DNCA specifically says that they need to respond or we need to respond on their behalf in order to be non-liable. In other cases, no one is required to respond at all. We're not required to respond, legally. The user is not required to respond, legally. We understand that there is a complaint, but short of that, we can't do anything. We got an email a couple of years ago from a software company that one user has a page that links to a pirate site that has our software. We said that we're sorry, but we didn't do anything about that because it's not our job to censor our users.
Karl: Basically to clarify, I'm not a u... obviously but copyright on internet is in enforced by the DMCA so if it warrants us to take immediate action against a user.
Sanjay: Usually it's not like that, there's an informal requesst first. If we refuse to fulfill that, then DMCA comes in.
Karl: Well, usually DMCA complains and it's like department has to state undue or copyright holder declares under penalty of perjury that he owns the copyright to a material and we have to take it down and if user agrees with taking it down he just does nothing and leaves it down and if he disagrees with the claim of take-down notice he can file a counter-notice and then he'll be able to put his material back up until a university enters and responds to the counter-notice the university would have to assume and everything.
Sanjay: This whole process is designed to get this out of our hands. If someone claimsm copyright, we can't judge whether the person is a real person.
Alan: Let's wait until Mike talks to the lawyers. 
Sanjay: I just wanted to fulfill Mike in. If a person came to us and claims that something is their copyright, we can't verify them.
Karl: If there is no take-down notice filed, we have absolutely no obligation to do anything.
Mike: Right, but when a take-down notice is filed, they don't have to prove that they have a copyright (they just have to allege).
Mike; We forward it to the user, their failure to respond requires for us to respond by sorrying, but this deals with copyright concerns.
Sanjay: Group accounts are different because they have to respond. For personal accounts, this is a different kind of case. The issue is that I think that this process is right for copyright, but for non-copyright issues I think you start hitting the gray area. Even if we  doubt the legality, we should take the same process so that we remain consistent and not leave it in staff's hands. That's why I want a process created.
Karl: We could also talk to  student advocate.
Mike: They're not helpful.

Alan: Moving on, Mike are you free for Cal Day? YOu need to show up for the 11 AM shift because you have the keys to the box. Just do something. simplyhd and Genevieve are taking care of the second shift. I will be in the table. Han will be in the penguin suit. Sanjay will be wandering around. Wilson can be with Mike. We will need to get Jamba Juice gift cards for the prizes. We have four flash sticks. We still accounts for the two surveys that show up. Genevieve bought stuff, so I only see four. Those are the three prizes, first place gets first choice and so on. Mike, sometime tomorrow, can you re-assemble the wheel? We have already determined the denominations for the wheel. (Alan recaps the stuff on the wheel). The 10 different things will add upt to the 16 slots. Do you know where the brick went? We need something to weight hte wheel down? What time are you going to show up, Mike?
Mike: Depends on what time I wae up, which depends on what time I go to bed on Friday.
Alan: simplyhd, you said you were going to show up at 8:30 AM. I want someone in the very beginning. Oh yea, Hn said that they would.
Sanjay: I will be there eventually in the morning.
Alan: Sanjay, your plans.

Sanjay: I have a GoogleDoc that isn't filled it, but it's the OCF plan for filling in details. It's good that it's off the OCF server since we're rebuilding stuff. If you want to be on that doc, just send me and email. Preferably, staff that are staying over the summer, this is the most up-to-date information. We need to desginate one person to answer questions over summer. One person needs to have response and tell everyone what to say. Last summer we had 2 months of downtime, and I was making claims th at we couldn't possibly fulfill because I wasn't sure w hat was going down.
Alan: I think we should just say that it's down over summer.
Sanjay: We need something otherwise, we'll run into problems. The technical issues are typically resolved, but administratively we want someone to be the point person.

Genevieve leaves.

Alan: Next issue is the decal.
Han: Who taught it before OCF?
Alan: It's always been us.
Sanjay: Han, can you teach?
Han: Jordan should do the actual teaching and I will be the TA.
Alan: If you guys want to teach the decal, you have to let us know because the deadline is coming down.
Sanjay: If I become site manager, I don't want to also teach the decal because it's a lot. We're not going to have one person teach the class, we'll have 2-3 people.
Han: I don't know how to shell script.
Mike: Just read through the slides on shell scripting first.
Sanjay: You learn a lot from teaching the decal.

Motion to adjourn.
seconded by simplyhd.

Motion to add Karl to BoD.
Seconded by Mike.
Unanimously in favor.

Motion to adjourn.
Seconded by simplyhd.
Unanimously in favor.

Meeting ends 8:27 PM