wu :: forums
« wu :: forums - White to Play and Win (II) »

Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register.
Oct 5th, 2022, 1:22am

RIDDLES SITE WRITE MATH! Home Home Help Help Search Search Members Members Login Login Register Register
   wu :: forums
   riddles
   hard
(Moderators: Eigenray, Icarus, towr, SMQ, Grimbal, ThudnBlunder, william wu)
   White to Play and Win (II)
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1  Reply Reply Notify of replies Notify of replies Send Topic Send Topic Print Print
   Author  Topic: White to Play and Win (II)  (Read 1060 times)
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
*****




The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea

   


Gender: male
Posts: 4489
White to Play and Win (II)   White_to_Play_and_Win_2.jpg
« on: Oct 2nd, 2003, 7:26am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

This is a standard chess puzzle.
IP Logged


THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
Vaio
Guest

Email

Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #1 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 8:58pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify Remove Remove

Here goes my attempt at the solution (and at chess notation..)
 
1. Nc6+ ...
now black has three possible choices, Kb6, Kb7, and Ka8.
If black moves to Ka8...
1. Nc6+ Ka8
2. e8=Q+ Kb7
3. Qd7+...
black has two options.. Kb6 or Ka8. if black moves to Ka8, white should play Qc8#. if black moves to Kb6..
3. Qd7+ Kb6
4. Bf2+ Nd4
5. Bxd4+ Kb5
6. Qd5#
 
Now, if black had originally moved to Kb6 or Kb7
1. Nc6+ Kb6
2. Ba5+...
black can move Kxc6, Kb7 or Kc5. if black moves Kb7 or Kc5, then white should do e8=Q since now, even if black moves Nc7+, white can Bxc7... and white should now have a good enough advantage to win.  but if black does Kxc6, then:
2. Ba5+ Kxc6
3. e8=Q+...
this leaves black either Kb7 or Kc5.  
3. e8=Q+ Kc5
4. Qc8+ Kd4
5. Bb6+ Ke4
6. Qc4+ Nd4
7. Qxd4#
or....
3. e8=Q+ Kb7
4. Qd7+... and i think that for any move black makes, there is a move white can make such that white wins (eventually, that is).
 

hopefully i didn't miss anything.. or maybe there's a black counter move that i didn't notice.  and i hope the hide tags work
IP Logged
vaio
Guest

Email

Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #2 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 9:07pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify Remove Remove

oops, something happened and it posted 5 times... i tried removing it but seems like i can't.  (when i posted, it took a while to load, i guess it was taking it's time posting it several times) anyways, sorry for the trouble but can someone remove the extra posts? (especially if i have some error in it...)
IP Logged
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
*****




The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea

   


Gender: male
Posts: 4489
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #3 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 9:08pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Quote:
hopefully i didn't miss anything..

You seem to have omitted the 1. Nc6+ Kb7 line.  
 
('Remove' should work on your extra posts.)
 
« Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2003, 9:58pm by ThudnBlunder » IP Logged

THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
towr
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
*****



Some people are average, some are just mean.

   


Gender: male
Posts: 13730
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #4 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 11:42pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

on Oct 6th, 2003, 9:07pm, vaio wrote:
sorry for the trouble but can someone remove the extra posts?
I removed the extra posts for you. If you register you can remove and edit your own posts and compete in getting the highest post-count Wink.  
 
on Oct 6th, 2003, 9:08pm, THUDandBLUNDER wrote:
('Remove' should work on your extra posts.)
Only if he were a registered member.
At least it gives me a chance to be usefull as a moderator  Wink
IP Logged

Wikipedia, Google, Mathworld, Integer sequence DB
Lightboxes
Full Member
***





   


Gender: male
Posts: 203
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #5 on: Oct 12th, 2003, 11:13pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

I need a hint, but a small hint.
 
Does the white bishop get captured by the end of the longest (if there are more than one variation) solution?
IP Logged

A job is not worth doing unless it's worth doing well.
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
*****




The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea

   


Gender: male
Posts: 4489
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #6 on: Oct 13th, 2003, 6:10am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Quote:
Does the white bishop get captured by the end of the longest (if there are more than one variation) solution?
 
BIG HINT: On the  contrary, it delivers mate.
« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2003, 6:10am by ThudnBlunder » IP Logged

THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
*****




The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea

   


Gender: male
Posts: 4489
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #7 on: Nov 4th, 2003, 2:23am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

As nobody has solved this puzzle (or IMHO is likely to), here is a link to its solution.  
It's well worth playing through!
 
http://chessbase.com/puzzle/puzz16b.htm
« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2003, 6:32am by ThudnBlunder » IP Logged

THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
BNC
Uberpuzzler
*****





   


Gender: male
Posts: 1732
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #8 on: Nov 4th, 2003, 4:26am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

So, does it mean you're going to track us all down and kill us?  Wink
IP Logged

How about supercalifragilisticexpialidociouspuzzler [Towr, 2007]
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
*****




The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea

   


Gender: male
Posts: 4489
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #9 on: Nov 4th, 2003, 6:28am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Quote:
So, does it mean you're going to track us all down and kill us?

 Grin
 
Not just yet. You see, I have exhausted that source.  
 
What do you think of the solution? Neat, eh?
 
« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2003, 6:32am by ThudnBlunder » IP Logged

THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
Barukh
Uberpuzzler
*****






   


Gender: male
Posts: 2276
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #10 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 1:41am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

on Nov 4th, 2003, 6:28am, THUDandBLUNDER wrote:
What do you think of the solution? Neat, eh?

The solution is indeed one of the most beautiful in its category I've ever seen.
 
However... Did you read the whole article, THUD&BLUNDER? There is a flaw in analysis, and this position is actually a draw! There were several attempts to modify it without destroying the beauty of the solution. I do not want to reiterate the artricle; the relevant parts are the paragraph starting with "A beautiful, fascinating problem..." and the Addendum.
 
Lesson learned: Beauty is very fragile  Cry
IP Logged
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
*****




The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea

   


Gender: male
Posts: 4489
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #11 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 3:11am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Quote:
However... Did you read the whole article, THUD&BLUNDER? There is a flaw in analysis, and this position is actually a draw!

Yes, when I posted the puzzle the solution was not available online. When I read the solution (needless to say, I couldn't solve it myself) I let it be. (Besides, we humble Untermenchen are unable to replace attachments.) But, as you indicate, starting with the b5 knight on e5 rescues the puzzle. As does a reader's suggestion of adding a pawn at a2.
IP Logged

THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
unkwoop
Guest

Email

Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #12 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 4:29am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify Remove Remove

I think you mean d5 in your mirrored board?
IP Logged
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
*****




The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea

   


Gender: male
Posts: 4489
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #13 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 5:31am »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Quote:
I think you mean d5 in your mirrored board?

Yes, you are right. How careless of me.  Embarassed
IP Logged

THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
Icarus
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
*****



Boldly going where even angels fear to tread.

   


Gender: male
Posts: 4863
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #14 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 3:34pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

on Nov 5th, 2003, 3:11am, THUDandBLUNDER wrote:
Besides, we humble Untermenchen are unable to replace attachments.

 
Alas, we Ubermenchen are unable to accomplish this either! Only the all-powerful administrator may do this task (unless this is one for which he must turn himself to the great root for assistance)!
IP Logged

"Pi goes on and on and on ...
And e is just as cursed.
I wonder: Which is larger
When their digits are reversed? " - Anonymous
Lightboxes
Full Member
***





   


Gender: male
Posts: 203
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #15 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 8:37pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Well well.
I haven't looked at the solution yet and closed my eyes on the position Thud gave.  Anyway, if it's true that it's a drawHuh??...
 
I did come up with a draw solution but I'm not sure if the draw is fool proof.  I obviously gave up on the draw solution since white is suppose to win.
 
IP Logged

A job is not worth doing unless it's worth doing well.
ThudnBlunder
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
*****




The dewdrop slides into the shining Sea

   


Gender: male
Posts: 4489
Re: White to Play and Win (II)  
« Reply #16 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 11:36pm »
Quote Quote Modify Modify

Quote:
I did come up with a draw solution but I'm not sure if the draw is fool proof.  I obviously gave up on the draw solution since white is suppose to win.

What was your drawing line after 1) Nc6+ Kb7?
 
Now begin again with the b5 knight on d5 and mate in 14.  (No peeking!)  Tongue
 
« Last Edit: Nov 5th, 2003, 11:40pm by ThudnBlunder » IP Logged

THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.....................................................................er, if that's all right with the rest of you.
Pages: 1  Reply Reply Notify of replies Notify of replies Send Topic Send Topic Print Print

« Previous topic | Next topic »

Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.4!
Forum software copyright © 2000-2004 Yet another Bulletin Board