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   Author  Topic: East of Shire  (Read 15817 times)
alien2
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East of Shire  
« on: May 21st, 2017, 2:59pm »
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   Bilbo knocks on a door of a solitary house apparently lost east of shire, mayhap because of some strange magic likewise mist. A man with a big smile opens the door and welcomes him inside and assures him that he’ll tell him how to get back to Shire. Bilbo enters the house out of politeness to soon find out that this kind man is actually a cannibal w/o conscience. Still, he is lucky in some ways forwhy this cannibal likes riddles.  
    Cannibal points at two pebbles, black and white, on a small round table, and tells him: “One of these pebbles is mine, while the other ‘tis not. If you answer correctly which pebble is mine, I’ll tell you directions you need and set you free. If not, I shall cook you and eat you.” Bilbo was pondering for some time and then it hit him and he outwitted the cannibal. How?  
 
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dudiobugtron
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #1 on: May 21st, 2017, 7:42pm »
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First he just guesses randomly, then if the first answer was not correct, gives the alternate answer.  That way he has answered correctly (even if also answering incorrectly), fulfilling the Cannibal's conditions for him to be set free.
 
I'm not sure how well this would work, though, if it is not the Cannibal's expected solution.  The Cannibal is adhering to his promise out of a love of riddles rather than out of any sense of honor  So he may well just eat Bilbo anyway if he isn't satisfied with the resolution.

 
Alternate answer:
The cannibal is a man, and so probably prefers to eat other men.  He is not interested in eating a hobbit like Bilbo.  Bilbo need merely (albeit, tactfully) point this out to the Cannibal, and he can go on his way.
« Last Edit: May 21st, 2017, 7:42pm by dudiobugtron » IP Logged
alien2
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #2 on: May 22nd, 2017, 12:36am »
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Not even close. Hobbit gets one guess/try.
 
on May 21st, 2017, 7:42pm, dudiobugtron wrote:
(...) The Cannibal is adhering to his promise out of a love of riddles rather than out of any sense of honor  So he may well just eat Bilbo anyway if he isn't satisfied with the resolution.

Nope. This is one honorable cannibal. And with Klingon heart when it comes to riddles. He'll keep his word.  
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rloginunix
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #3 on: May 22nd, 2017, 7:36am »
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Properly positioned, the two pebbles on the table form a yin-yang sign.
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alien2
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #4 on: May 22nd, 2017, 8:01am »
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So? Just because he is a cannibal it does not mean his favorite color is black (if that is what you're talking about). I reckon favorite color of African Americans is white because they just love white American women. Do they not? As per me, well, I think that Indian (bindi not feathers), Romani and Japanese women happen to be the most beautiful women in the world. Tastes differ.
« Last Edit: May 22nd, 2017, 8:03am by alien2 » IP Logged


alien2
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #5 on: May 22nd, 2017, 10:24am »
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I think I get it now. Your answer is not bad, I think; but which pebble exactly is 'his', yin or no yin (and yang)? Perhaps a pebble was a gift from another Hobbit who begged him not to eat him. Btw, I doubt folks in Middle-earth heard of yin and yang.
« Last Edit: May 22nd, 2017, 10:27am by alien2 » IP Logged


dudiobugtron
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #6 on: May 22nd, 2017, 12:33pm »
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Bilbo, a practiced thief of small objects, should steal both stones (finders keepers!), then give one to the man.  The man, although honorable, is without conscience, so probably has no qualms over stealing.
« Last Edit: May 22nd, 2017, 12:49pm by dudiobugtron » IP Logged
alien2
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #7 on: May 23rd, 2017, 12:08am »
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Yes! I reckon the cannibal wanted to give one of the pebbles to Bilbo as a gift and a token of their unusual relationship. And at that moment while Bilbo is holding a pebble, be it black or white, I guess the pebble is truly his. Is it not?
« Last Edit: May 23rd, 2017, 12:09am by alien2 » IP Logged


Grimbal
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #8 on: May 23rd, 2017, 5:14am »
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"You see the pebble that's not yours?  Well, yours is the other one."
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alien2
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #9 on: May 23rd, 2017, 5:40am »
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Dirty play dirty, eh? Not bad.
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alien2
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #10 on: May 23rd, 2017, 11:32am »
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on May 23rd, 2017, 5:14am, Grimbal wrote:
"You see the pebble that's not yours?  Well, yours is the other one."

Or the pebble that is not yours is, well, not yours. And you do know what pebble is not yours otherwise you'd be dumb, and I don't think you'd be able to live with yourself as a dumb cannibal, o Cannibal the Riddle-maker.  
« Last Edit: May 24th, 2017, 8:29am by alien2 » IP Logged


rmsgrey
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #11 on: May 24th, 2017, 6:31am »
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"The black pebble is yours, and the white pebble is not the black pebble."
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alien2
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #12 on: May 24th, 2017, 7:44am »
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Huh?
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Grimbal
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #13 on: May 24th, 2017, 8:52am »
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He pockets both pebbles and says "They are both mine.  Now would you please step in the oven so that I can cook you and eat you.  I don't have time for all that nonsense.  Thank you."
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alien2
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #14 on: May 24th, 2017, 10:49am »
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It's doesn't sound like reciprocity to me.
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rmsgrey
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #15 on: May 25th, 2017, 3:39am »
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on May 24th, 2017, 7:44am, alien2 wrote:
Huh?

 
Quote:
One of these pebbles is mine, while the other ‘tis not.

 
One of the pebbles - the black one, say - is his; it's also not the other pebble - the white one.
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rloginunix
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #16 on: May 25th, 2017, 7:22am »
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@Alien2: what rmsgrey is saying in the language of formal logic is the following. There are a number of basic logical connectives: AND, OR, NOT (you may also toss conditional/implication into the ring). The logical value of two statements connected with AND is TRUE in only one case - when both sides (arguments) of this binary operator are TRUE - simultaneously. Example: "my name is rloginunix" AND "I'm typing this" evaluates to FALSE because even though I am typing this, my real name is not rloginunix.
 
Let "black pebble is yours" = B(Y), where B stands for (this) Black pebble and Y stands for the pebble's property of "being yours".
 
And let the white pebble = W. Then, "the white pebble is not the black pebble" becomes W != B (we use != to mean "is not") and rmsgrey's statement becomes:
 
B(Y) AND W != B
 
Here the statement on the right hand side of AND is always TRUE - clearly the pebbles are different. Hence, the truthhood of this construct hinges on the truthhood of B(Y). Hence, if the Cannibal's answer is "yes" then his pebble is black. If the Cannibal's answer is "no" then the only choice for his pebble is white.
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alien2
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #17 on: May 25th, 2017, 8:17am »
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Do not speak to be about logic. Throw him from the rampart! Did you not hear me?! Huh? Let go of me! I am an alien but why for the love of God throw me?! Aaaaaaahhhhhhhh!
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Grimbal
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #18 on: May 26th, 2017, 5:57am »
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- One of these pebbles is mine, while the other ‘tis not.  Which one is mine?
- The one, not the other one.
- Correct.  Now your directions.  There is the Shire and East of the Shire.  One of them is east of the other, the other, 'tis not.  So should we go east or west?  Hint: it is called East of the Shire for a reason.
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2017, 5:57am by Grimbal » IP Logged
alien2
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #19 on: May 26th, 2017, 6:22am »
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on May 26th, 2017, 5:57am, Grimbal wrote:
(...) Now your directions.  There is the Shire and East of the Shire.  One of them is east of the other, the other, 'tis not.  So should we go east or west?  Hint: it is called East of the Shire for a reason.

All right! I don't know the answer but the addendum to the riddle sounds great! Did I say addendum? I meant Swiss-Croatian extended riddle.  
« Last Edit: May 26th, 2017, 10:34am by alien2 » IP Logged


rmsgrey
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #20 on: May 27th, 2017, 2:28am »
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The point I was aiming for (not sure I made it) was that the cannibal's speech identifies that one of the pebbles is his, but the second portion of the statement can be interpreted as saying that that pebble is not the other pebble.
 
In that case, since both pebbles are in the cannibal's possession, whichever one you point to is his, and is also not the other pebble.
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alien2
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #21 on: May 27th, 2017, 2:49am »
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Not bad. I'll mention this in my future book Dragon's Blood (if I ever write it) which is the Hobbit clone (or Lord of the Rings clone if you will but I like the Hobbit a heck of a lot more).
« Last Edit: Jun 15th, 2017, 8:43am by alien2 » IP Logged


alien2
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Re: East of Shire  
« Reply #22 on: May 29th, 2017, 4:22am »
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Even if it isn't the ring of power rendering him invisible? All right! So much 'bout necessity and terrible need  for Sauron's ring that, apparently, fixes all your problems, as if it doesn't turn you into Golum. Who wants such a ring?! I dunno. Just give me a pebble. I am rather modest.
« Last Edit: May 29th, 2017, 4:23am by alien2 » IP Logged


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