I sent a reply to the message: Thank you for emailing callib and giving me, nesim sisa, cybersecretary for the Cal Libertarians, the chance to respond to your criticism. In the future if you would like to reach a larger audience of libertarians post to the newsgroup, ucb.org.cal-libertarians. You might also be interested in our website at http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~callib. We have meetings on Wednesdays at 6:30. Tomorrow we will have a speech criticizing the existence of the IMF. It is easy to see how one could confuse those who wish to limit government control of citizens' lives with stinginess and meaness. Welfare and the food stamps program do provide at least a band aid to extreme poverty. However you miss the point, most spending is to maintain a large bureaucracy. But you might argue that bureaucracies are beneficial. They allow for regulation and without regulation certainly people would be oppressed by unresponsive greedy corporations. But I would like to ask, why can't citizens be invested with their rights, which are theirs by naturally? Why does government have to serve as the great patriarchal protector? Federal Laws prevent citizens from suing and collecting damages for criminal transgressions and environmental damages. Why is murder a crime against society as opposed to a crime against an individual, or an individual's family? There was no nuclear power industry before a law limiting liability for nuclear accidents was passed. What government agency is well known in California? The INS! Does it make any sense that some number cruncher half way across the country gets to decide who crosses the borders into America. The result is twofold. Criminals and the wealthy can bypass laws. Common people have to sneak undercover from dogs and guns. Employers can then take advantage of their outlaw status. The argument against government social programs is that they use tax dollars forcibly taken from citizens, percentage wise mostly from the poor and middle class. Is it necessary to rob your neighbor to feed yourself, or would you accept that perhaps your neighbor is not unlike you, and ask him for help. Of course what will happen to the poor and uneducated. Not all Libertarians agree on abolishing govt welfare. Some say private employment would take care of the poor. Others suggest that private charity would replace public spending. Still one could argue that welfare, to individuals not corporations and farmers, is such a small cost that it could still be maintained. My feeling is that govt welfare could not be abolished before private institutions have proven to the public that they work. One should not forget that communities and businessess have an interest in healthy communities, people, and workers. Much of the initial impetus for funding school lunch programs, according to retired Navy Engineer Simon, was the high costs of soldiers with malnourished childhoods. This may in fact be more anecdotal than true, but it does illustrate that communities have an interest in taking care of one another. You wrote rather sarcastically that colored people should work harder, as if libertarians were oblivious to racism. In fact, what party did Russel Means run for president under? The Libertarian Party. Have you read his autobiography, released about a year ago I believe. He gives his own arguments for Libertarianism. sincereley nesim sisa