Author |
Topic: Survey #3 (Read 4941 times) |
|
Sir Col
Uberpuzzler
impudens simia et macrologus profundus fabulae
Gender: 
Posts: 1825
|
 |
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #25 on: Nov 1st, 2007, 11:56am » |
 Quote  Modify
|
on Nov 1st, 2007, 7:05am, rmsgrey wrote:
I hate it when it's not a question of "Which is the right answer?" but "Which does the examiner think is the most right answer?" |
|
I know exactly what you mean, rmsgrey. For years I taught my students that you could add fractions like this: 1/2 + 2/3 = 3/5, and none of them ever found them difficult. I could give them pages of calculations and they'd churn the answers out in minutes. However, recently some pesky examiner insists on a convoluted "common denominator" method. To be honest neither I nor my students understand any more. I dunno!? 
|
|
 IP Logged |
mathschallenge.net / projecteuler.net
|
|
|
FiBsTeR
Senior Riddler
Gender:
Posts: 581
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #26 on: Nov 1st, 2007, 5:02pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Nov 1st, 2007, 7:05am, rmsgrey wrote:
I hate it when it's not a question of "Which is the right answer?" but "Which does the examiner think is the most right answer?" |
|
As for as the math and science standardized tests (including AP), I don't think there's any ambiguity in the questions. There's always a correct answer, and the examiner has a very strict rubric (I've seen an example of one, from which to grade the free response questions (the multiple-choice machine-checker is even more strict  ). If there is even the slightest hint of ambiguity in a question on an AP test, I'm sure the people who review these things have caught them. If not, any student can report ambiguous questions to be reviewed again.
I can't speak as definitively for AP Lang/Comp and the like, but I'm pretty sure the rules of grammar are fairly strict, as well. Sure there are some things left up to style (last comma of a list, for example), but I doubt these things appear on a test, although I can't say for sure because I've never taken that AP test yet.
EDIT:
on Nov 1st, 2007, 11:56am, Sir Col wrote:
For years I taught my students that you could add fractions like this: 1/2 + 2/3 = 3/5 |
|
And thus 2 + 1 = 3, (2/1)+(-1/-1)=1/0, 2 = 1/0, and thus all numbers are undefined, and there are no correct answers to any question.
|
| « Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2007, 5:06pm by FiBsTeR » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
JiNbOtAk
Uberpuzzler
Hana Hana No Mi
Gender:
Posts: 1187
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #27 on: Nov 1st, 2007, 5:41pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Nov 1st, 2007, 7:05am, rmsgrey wrote:
I hate it when it's not a question of "Which is the right answer?" but "Which does the examiner think is the most right answer?" |
|
The barometer story is a good example. I guess the examiners are prepping the students to face the real world; Clients don't really care how you do it, or if it's done correctly, as long as it conforms to what they want. ( some don't even know what they want, but that's a different story. )
|
| « Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2007, 5:42pm by JiNbOtAk » |
IP Logged |
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
|
|
|
mikedagr8
Uberpuzzler
A rich man is one who is content; not wealthy.
Gender:
Posts: 1105
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #28 on: Nov 1st, 2007, 5:52pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Nov 1st, 2007, 5:41pm, JiNbOtAk wrote:
The barometer story is a good example. I guess the examiners are prepping the students to face the real world; Clients don't really care how you do it, or if it's done correctly, as long as it conforms to what they want. ( some don't even know what they want, but that's a different story. ) |
|
I'd go with the more violent and destructive methods simply because they're fun. 
I wouldn't worry about replacing the barometer, it worked fine.
|
|
IP Logged |
"It's not that I'm correct, it's that you're just not correct, and so; I am right." - M.P.E.
|
|
|
ima1trkpny
Senior Riddler
"Double click on 'Yes'... Hey!"
Gender: 
Posts: 452
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #29 on: Nov 1st, 2007, 8:04pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Nov 1st, 2007, 5:02pm, FiBsTeR wrote:
As for as the math and science standardized tests (including AP), I don't think there's any ambiguity in the questions. There's always a correct answer...
I can't speak as definitively for AP Lang/Comp and the like, but I'm pretty sure the rules of grammar are fairly strict, as well. Sure there are some things left up to style (last comma of a list, for example), but I doubt these things appear on a test, although I can't say for sure because I've never taken that AP test yet. |
|
Hahaha, you assume I meant grammatically... well there is MUCH more to the Eng. Lang/Comp. test than that. Most of them are more interpretational... read a passage and tell them what the significance of Jane having 6 books on the table as opposed to 7, etc (being a little exaggerated... but they do have plenty that are very very open to the interpretation of the reader) and the problem with it being multiple choice is they will give you several answers all of which could make sense depending on your perspective and you aren't given the opportunity to support your answer with your logic... you either see it the way they do or you don't.
And coming from the perspective of someone who has taken all of the AP science and math tests with the exception of chemistry (took that as underclassman because they wouldn't let me take AP  ) as well as the Humanities tests like English, etc. LOL... yes, in the Math and Science they are considerably less ambiguous... but they are tricky none the less. They delight in occasionally wording things in misleading fashions. *Note: Pay attention to Unit traps!!!* Every year many people lose a whole lot of points because they were too stressed out to realize that some measurements in the problem weren't given in base units and so they forgot to convert...
And LOL... the examiners are teachers, they want to give every point can (especially since the tests don't have names on them they could be grading their own student's tests) that doesn't mean the test itself and the test designers don't deliberately get very tricky. The Physics test is the one I'm referring to the most... but from the CollegeBoards perspective, if someone gets a 100% on the test, CollegeBoard did a poor job of designing as they don't know the limits of your knowledge. So they will deliberately set up tricky questions or ones far more advanced than high school AP students would be likely to have seen so they can find out who really knows how to think and understands the concepts.
This isn't to say AP is bad... in fact I loved it just don't be cocky going into it... be confident in your abilities but go in with your eyes open and pay attention to every detail because they will employ some subterfuge just to see if you were quick enough to catch it. Oh... and final suggestion... study your labs and know them inside and out before you go into the test... that will be a huge help in the free response. Best of luck!
|
| « Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2007, 8:05pm by ima1trkpny » |
IP Logged |
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." -Churchill
|
|
|
rmsgrey
Uberpuzzler
    
Gender:
Posts: 2873
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #30 on: Nov 3rd, 2007, 5:46am » |
Quote Modify
|
I'm reminded of what I heard about the Statistics exam where, from time to time, someone would score 101% - the exam was marked out of 102 and the numerical value of the mark given as the percentage score (no-one ever got full marks)
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
JiNbOtAk
Uberpuzzler
Hana Hana No Mi
Gender:
Posts: 1187
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #31 on: Nov 4th, 2007, 5:49pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Nov 3rd, 2007, 5:46am, rmsgrey wrote:| (no-one ever got full marks) |
|
Hmm..why is that ? What is wrong with awarding full marks ? ( Provided they answered everything correctly ? )
|
|
IP Logged |
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
|
|
|
ima1trkpny
Senior Riddler
"Double click on 'Yes'... Hey!"
Gender:
Posts: 452
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #32 on: Nov 4th, 2007, 7:39pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Nov 4th, 2007, 5:49pm, JiNbOtAk wrote:
Hmm..why is that ? What is wrong with awarding full marks ? ( Provided they answered everything correctly ? ) |
|
It was just ironic... but the test designers don't want anybody able to get full marks... then they don't know the limits of your knowledge.
|
|
IP Logged |
"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." -Churchill
|
|
|
JiNbOtAk
Uberpuzzler
Hana Hana No Mi
Gender:
Posts: 1187
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #33 on: Nov 4th, 2007, 8:28pm » |
Quote Modify
|
No one can get full marks, but anyone can get zero..it's like saying anyone can be mediocre, but no one can be perfect.
Wait, that is how the world works.
|
|
IP Logged |
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
|
|
|
alien2
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 6989
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #34 on: Jan 12th, 2008, 8:36am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Sep 30th, 2007, 7:02am, mikedagr8 wrote:| I know I may seem like prying, starting another survey, but but what is everyone's occupations, or desired occupations? |
|
.....talking about the latter question, I always wanted to be a fireman. Why? Because there aren't many fires, or at least, not in my town, so basically what you do is nothing most of the time. Sure, you might get burned badly, but hey, laziness has its price.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
mikedagr8
Uberpuzzler
A rich man is one who is content; not wealthy.
Gender:
Posts: 1105
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #35 on: Jan 13th, 2008, 2:49am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jan 12th, 2008, 8:36am, Iceman wrote:
.....talking about the latter question, I always wanted to be a fireman. Why? Because there aren't many fires, or at least, not in my town, so basically what you do is nothing most of the time. Sure, you might get burned badly, but hey, laziness has its price. |
|
True to that, I've always wanted to be succesful, but I've never been quite sure of how to accomplish that.
|
|
IP Logged |
"It's not that I'm correct, it's that you're just not correct, and so; I am right." - M.P.E.
|
|
|
alien2
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 6989
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #36 on: Jan 13th, 2008, 4:32am » |
Quote Modify
|
You're 16 so you have an excuse.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
FiBsTeR
Senior Riddler
Gender:
Posts: 581
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #37 on: Jan 13th, 2008, 7:40am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jan 12th, 2008, 8:36am, Iceman wrote:
.....talking about the latter question, I always wanted to be a fireman. Why? Because there aren't many fires, or at least, not in my town, so basically what you do is nothing most of the time. Sure, you might get burned badly, but hey, laziness has its price. |
|
In my town, the fire department is on a volunteer basis, so you could sit around all you want, but you wouldn't get paid for it.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
alien2
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 6989
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #38 on: Jan 13th, 2008, 9:14am » |
Quote Modify
|
Then I'll just avoid your town, even though I don't like third-degree burns. It's nothing personal, but I am Iceman, so I suppose any fire department would be proud to have me. Wherever there are burning forests, I'll be there. Wherever there are burning buildings, I'll be there. Wherever there are women with third-degree burns, I won't be there. So you better be in perfect health when I enter the burning building, baby. I may be fireman in heart, but I also have quite a specific taste. So if she's burned, I'll get the hell out of there like a bat out of hell, resign immediately, and go on a long vacation in FiBsTeR's town. All evens all, I guess, and again, nothing personal. Sometimes I try to be humoristic by applying black humor as well. Oh well, maybe I'm just lonely because I had sex three years ago.  
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
FiBsTeR
Senior Riddler
Gender:
Posts: 581
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #39 on: Jan 13th, 2008, 10:28am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Nov 1st, 2007, 8:04pm, ima1trkpny wrote:
The Physics test is the one I'm referring to the most... but from the CollegeBoards perspective, if someone gets a 100% on the test, CollegeBoard did a poor job of designing as they don't know the limits of your knowledge. So they will deliberately set up tricky questions or ones far more advanced than high school AP students would be likely to have seen so they can find out who really knows how to think and understands the concepts. |
|
Really? From some of the released AP tests I've seen, the questions seem fairly straightforward, at least on the Classical Mechanics side (I start E&M next week).
And I don't think they have too many qualms on giving perfect scores; I got 800/800 on two of their SAT Subject Tests. 
On a separate note, I hope this post is formatted correctly, since I'm starting to check/post on these forums on my phone. 
|
| « Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2008, 10:31am by FiBsTeR » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Ghost Sniper
Senior Riddler
Do not hide. It is useless.
Gender:
Posts: 599
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #40 on: Jan 14th, 2008, 10:17am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jan 13th, 2008, 9:14am, Iceman wrote:| Then I'll just avoid your town, even though I don't like third-degree burns. It's nothing personal, but I am Iceman, so I suppose any fire department would be proud to have me. Wherever there are burning forests, I'll be there. Wherever there are burning buildings, I'll be there. Wherever there are women with third-degree burns, I won't be there. So you better be in perfect health when I enter the burning building, baby. I may be fireman in heart, but I also have quite a specific taste. So if she's burned, I'll get the hell out of there like a bat out of hell, resign immediately, and go on a long vacation in FiBsTeR's town. All evens all, I guess, and again, nothing personal. Sometimes I try to be humoristic by applying black humor as well. Oh well, maybe I'm just lonely because I had sex three years ago. |
|
Well in that case...
My school building is burning down as we speak. So get your butt over here, pronto.
|
|
IP Logged |
*sob* I miss my mommy... *blows nose* huh, I'm on? oh right.
(thinks to self) Time for my speech to these college kids.
"Reason is more important than all emotions..."
|
|
|
alien2
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 6989
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #41 on: Jan 14th, 2008, 11:32am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jan 14th, 2008, 10:17am, Ghost Sniper wrote:My school building is burning down as we speak. So get your butt over here, pronto.
|
|
Have no fear: Iceman is here! Btw, I don't need a fire extinguisher, for I AM fire extinguisher. 
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
FiBsTeR
Senior Riddler
Gender:
Posts: 581
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #42 on: Jan 15th, 2008, 4:23pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jan 14th, 2008, 11:32am, Iceman wrote:
Hadouken!!!! (For those of you that remember Street Fighter.)
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
JiNbOtAk
Uberpuzzler
Hana Hana No Mi
Gender:
Posts: 1187
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #43 on: Jan 15th, 2008, 10:32pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jan 15th, 2008, 4:23pm, FiBsTeR wrote:
Hadouken!!!! (For those of you that remember Street Fighter.) |
|
Who doesn't ?
|
|
IP Logged |
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
|
|
|
Grimbal
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Gender:
Posts: 7527
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #44 on: Jan 16th, 2008, 3:40am » |
Quote Modify
|
Street Fighter? What is that?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
towr
wu::riddles Moderator
Uberpuzzler
Some people are average, some are just mean.
Gender:
Posts: 13730
|
|
Re: Survey #3
« Reply #45 on: Jan 16th, 2008, 6:15am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jan 16th, 2008, 3:40am, Grimbal wrote:| Street Fighter? What is that? |
|
It's a movie with Jean-Claude Van Damme
I don't recall it featuring any Hadouken though.
|
| « Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2008, 6:15am by towr » |
IP Logged |
Wikipedia, Google, Mathworld, Integer sequence DB
|
|
|
|
RIDDLES SITE
WRITE MATH!
Home 
Help 
Search 
Members 
Login 
Register
Reply
Notify of replies
Send Topic
Print